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The Watchtower - A thread for all comics

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3 hours ago, wev said:

Anything worth looking at from FCBD this year? The only things that look interesting are maybe the Catwoman book and Spawn (a reprint of #1? I've never read Spawn, so...)

 

Y

E

S

 

STL111281?type=1

 

CHRISTIANO RONALDO'S STRIKER FORCE 7

 

 

 

 

 

im rereading Hellboy again. It’s so good and tragic and fun

 

BDB1650B-DF69-4CE0-9B98-B736B87B73A2.thumb.jpeg.2d713189a15ef84504b040d3d5ddb32c.jpeg

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3 hours ago, bear said:

Just finished reading Hulk (2008) on Marvel Unlimited to try and get a bit of context for the character as the Immortal Hulk stuff I've read seems fine but not mind blowingly good like its been for some in here. Anyway, Hulk is ok, nothing special. Some real awkward women as fuckdoll moments though. In one story She-Hulk assembles a team to go after red-hulk and there's a scene where they get given new uniforms by SHIELD which serves no purpose other than to have a panel of them getting changed and remarking tha they "sure hope there's no camera in this changing room". That's it, the uniforms don't even do anything. Its just an excuse for a panel to show characters getting undressed. And there's this Ms. Marvel panel which is a unique interpretation of anatmony.

 

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On the Brightside here's Zeus.

 

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Did someone say Hulk? :)

 

Shame that Immortal Hulk isn't doing it for you, for me it's genuinely way up there with Swamp Thing and Watchmen and the like. But if you're still interested in some actual context for the character Immortal Hulk I've got a few recommendations.

 

(What you've read, the Loeb series, is really one of the worst in all of Hulk history imo. It's like someone new to Spider-Man who wants to get a feel for the character, deciding to start with Clone Saga and One More Day)

 

For direct context leading into Immortal Hulk (and this also goes for anyone interested after reading Immortal Hulk) there are three essential issues:

 

Incredible Hulk 1 by Stan Lee (the man) and Jack Kirby (the king)

 

The very first Hulk comic and - crucially - also the one that establishes the horror angle and casts the Hulk as a creature of the night. Is he man? Is he monster? ...or is he both

 

Incredible Hulk 312 by Bill Mantlo (legendary Hulk scribe, also creator of Rocket Raccoon) and Mike Mignola (yes, the very same, in his early twenties and hella talented)

 

A genuine classic which introduced us to the idea of the Hulk being the result of the horrible abuse Bruce received as a child. A tragic tale which established the MPD angle which Peter David later ran with.

 

Incredible Hulk 377 by Peter David (until Al Ewing came along the undisputed best ever Hulk writer) and Dale Keown (who was born to draw the Hulk and delivers arguably his best work here)

 

The great Peter David classic, in which a writer not only finally does something with the ideas established by IH 312, it's also a direct continuation of that story. David takes the MPD angle and redefines the character forever.

 

 

 

If you're interested in more, check out Planet Hulk. It's a fantastic standalone tale available in TPB and might be more your thing if you're looking for a really good adventurous thrill. This is Pak's best work, and imo the stuff you read - the 'Hulk family/everyone is a Hulk' stuff - is really weak in comparison.

 

Also check out Peter David's legendary 10-year run. Available in the a series of TPBs called Hulk Visionaries: Peter David. Start with volume 1 and go. At some point, after volume 8, they switched to Epic Collection TPBs instead but these line up perfectly where Visionaries left off. The art is up and down throughout David's run but the writing is consistently great - and the art hits some really really high notes when Keown joins the fun. Towards the very end of his David's plotlines were sabotaged multiple times by editorial interference and mega cross-over events (sigh) but that doesn't spoil the overall run.

 

If you're hankering for classic savage Hulk smash action: everything by Bill Mantlo. He starts at Incredible Hulk 245, so just go from there. If you're after something shorter and also more shocking/different, then start at Incredible Hulk 371 instead. Mantlo gives Banner permanent control over the Hulk, only to have him slowly, agonizingly, descend into madness whilst trying to keep the beast under control, leading to the appearance of the most mindless and savage Hulk ever seen. That leads into the classic Crossroads saga from issue 300 onwards, a story that is constantly referenced in later tales. Mantlo's run ends with 313, right after the aforementioned showstopper issue 312.

 

Less good, but still enjoyable, is Paul Jenkins' Hulk run in the 2000 Incredible Hulk series, which goes from issue 12 to 33 and is collected in the recent Dogs of War TPB. Until Ewing came along, Jenkins was the only writer with enough chops to try and build on David's work. If you want to know which Devil is being referenced, read this.

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Heads up and I have heard it’s a decent read Nailbiter Deluxe Hardcover Vol 1 is only £16 on Amazon.

 

304 pages for that price seems good enough to take a risk and it’s well reviewed it appears. 

 

Should say it’s a horror comic so not everyone’s cup of tea. 

 

 

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So I just caught up on the past few months of BPRD and, well... I thought the last couple of years of it were weak. Competent but dull art, muddled, rushed story telling. But it ended prefectly with a grand bit of cosmic world building and lore. A really fitting finale to Hellboy's saga.

 

Thoughts:

 

Spoiler

 

I thought most of the set up for this was weak. Hellboy returning to earth through Roger's remains should have been a monumental WHAT THE FUCK IS HAPPENING! moment to rival the crazy lore dump in The Island or the King Arthur stuff, or Satan's murder. But it's just a thing that happens on the last page of one issue, and then nobody seems to bat an eyelid in the next issue. All the character building that Mignola worked so hard to introduce in the early BPRD story arcs and John Arcudi ran with has been completely discarded by this point and everyone has just turned in to a cardboard cut out saying and doing whatever needs to be said and done to move the plot along. Even the art, although admittedly well done, feels flat and characterless after the heights of Guy Davis and James Harren. BPRD at its best has always been a bit more cartoony and expressive than Hellboy, again something that was thrown away at the end.

 

Also, for large swathes of the last story arc, I didn't have a fucking clue what was happening panel to panel, who was supposed to be talking to who, whether dialogue was intended to be ambiguous or was just badly done. It's been a huge mess.

 

But like I said, I just can't fault the ending, it was wonderful. I got this sense that throughout the whole of Hellboy and BPRD, all the prophecies and visions of the future were just different interpretations of what actually happens at the end. I went back and flicked through Seed Of Destruction after I read the last issue, and it's all right there from the start, it lays out exactly what's going to happen. But Hellboy spends so much time fighting against it that as a reader I've been fighting against it too for the past 20 odd years.

 

 

So it looks like there'll be a Mignola and Fregredo Hellboy and The BPRD mini series later this year which has the potential to be very good. I wasn't a fan of the earlier H+BPRD stories, they felt a bit by the numbers compared to the main Hellboy and BPRD series' but this could be something special. Also if anyone missed The Visitor: How and Why he Stayed, about the alien from Conqueror Worm, that was my favourite Mignola verse story of the past few years and I can't recommend it enough.

 

I guess I could just go back and re-read everything from the beginning now...

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8 hours ago, matt0 said:

 

 

I guess I could just go back and re-read everything from the beginning now...

 

that's what I'm doing atm. I'd completely forgotten about the aliens when they showed up at the end of BPRD, I was all like WHAAAAAAAAT

 

 

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The Hulk Visionaries trades Boss Gerbick mentioned above are currently on sale at Comixology for 3.99 each. I'm buying them RIGHT FUCKING NOW

 

*Edit* And lol. I already own the first two but have never read them

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3 hours ago, Flub said:

*Edit* And lol. I already own the first two but have never read them

The Comixology experience is a lot like the Steam experience, I find.

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I don't like reading digital it's so annoying. 

 

For some reason my mind thinks it cheapen’s the experience. I much prefer a nice hardcover. What's wrong with me?? 

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@cassidy there's nothing wrong with a personal preference and I think everyone here understands the appeal of a nice hardcover paperback :)

 

Maybe you just haven't met the right tablet yet :P

 

I'd at least recommend not using a phone or a small tablet. I had a loooong conversation with one of the Pickford Bros. on Twitter in which he lamented not getting the appeal of digital while going on about using guided view on a phone. No matter what, I couldn't get him to understand that having a 10" tablet, roughly the size of yet average comic page, and a good quality screen is crucial for my digital reading experience. It feels right that way.

 

 

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I made a joke that the Hellboy movie should have a lot of scene setting shots of skulls and gargoyles and there are a lot in the comics but to truly be a worthy adaptation they’d have to have him falling through a collapsing floor every five minutes or so. :lol:

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2 hours ago, Mr. Gerbik said:

@cassidy there's nothing wrong with a personal preference and I think everyone here understands the appeal of a nice hardcover paperback :)

 

Maybe you just haven't met the right tablet yet :P

 

I'd at least recommend not using a phone or a small tablet. I had a loooong conversation with one of the Pickford Bros. on Twitter in which he lamented not getting the appeal of digital while going on about using guided view on a phone. No matter what, I couldn't get him to understand that having a 10" tablet, roughly the size of yet average comic page, and a good quality screen is crucial for my digital reading experience. It feels right that way.

 

 

 

I have a 10.5 inch iPad Pro and a new iPad Mini. Both are amazing devices. The Mini is going to be perfect for my holiday next week.

 

Then I saw someone reading comics on one of the really big fuckers earlier today. Drool.

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12 hours ago, Flub said:

 

I have a 10.5 inch iPad Pro and a new iPad Mini. Both are amazing devices. The Mini is going to be perfect for my holiday next week.

 

Then I saw someone reading comics on one of the really big fuckers earlier today. Drool.

Also @Mr. Gerbik

 

Well I have a norm sized pro which is about 3yrs old. Maybe I do need a giant one to match my love the oversized format. But it's a bit of a risk if I still don't. 

 

This month I have the Black magik hardcover arriving and Saga hardcover  3 both the end of the month. 

 

Any ideas how to get that Mister Miracle hardcover as its DM only and not on Amazon? 

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4 minutes ago, cassidy said:

Any ideas how to get that Mister Miracle hardcover as its DM only and not on Amazon? 

 

Forbidden Planet have a website (https://forbiddenplanet.com/271955-mister-miracle-hardcover/) but I've never used them. It's not out for a couple of weeks but I'm sure a place in space will have it as well (https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/a-place-in-space)

 

 

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I’ve just bought the annual sub to Marvel Unlimited for my son’s 10th birthday. Any tips for decent series for him to start off with? He’s seen most of the Marvel films and really enjoys them, to the extent of making Stormbreaker to take to Endgame. 

 

I used to to be a prolific comic reader in my younger years, especially the X-Men. So, I’m looking forward to revising some of my favs. Having said that, I haven’t really read much Marvel since the mid 90s; tended to read stuff like Sandman, Saga etc. I’ve startwed reading Immortal Hulk because of the praise you guys have given it. Any tips on what else I should dive into? 

 

I appreciate that’s not much for you to be going on but there seems to have been some excellent advice in here, so any tips would be gratefully received. 

 

Genuinely excited to be getting back into comics! 

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52 minutes ago, cassidy said:

 

Well I have a norm sized pro which is about 3yrs old. Maybe I do need a giant one to match my love the oversized format. But it's a bit of a risk if I still don't

Imo your best option is if you know anyone with a giant tablet, and ask him or her if you can try it out for a bit. Before spending giant money.

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the big 12.9 inch ipad pro presumably, unless someone makes a more ridiculous tablet. 

 

edit: lol, looks like Samsung makes one that's slightly bigger, if you want to read DC's Wednesday Comics lifesized

 

Spoiler

Samsung-Galaxy-View-Review-005.jpg

 

BOOOOOOM

 

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7 hours ago, Stopharage said:

I’ve just bought the annual sub to Marvel Unlimited for my son’s 10th birthday. Any tips for decent series for him to start off with? He’s seen most of the Marvel films and really enjoys them, to the extent of making Stormbreaker to take to Endgame. 

 

I used to to be a prolific comic reader in my younger years, especially the X-Men. So, I’m looking forward to revising some of my favs. Having said that, I haven’t really read much Marvel since the mid 90s; tended to read stuff like Sandman, Saga etc. I’ve startwed reading Immortal Hulk because of the praise you guys have given it. Any tips on what else I should dive into? 

 

I appreciate that’s not much for you to be going on but there seems to have been some excellent advice in here, so any tips would be gratefully received. 

 

Genuinely excited to be getting back into comics! 

OK my fave marvel reads over the past few years. 

 

Jonathan Hickmans entire run from Secret Warriors to secret wars. I think I posted a reading order a few pages back

 

Squirrel girl

The vision by Tom King

Ms Marvel 

Moon girl and devil dinosaur 

Jason Aarons Thor run 

Nextwave

Silver surfer the Slott /Allred run 

Uncanny X-force by Rick Remender

Hawkeye by Matt Fraction 

 

That's a hell of a start tbh and I can continue if you want. 

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12 hours ago, cassidy said:

OK my fave marvel reads over the past few years. 

 

Jonathan Hickmans entire run from Secret Warriors to secret wars. I think I posted a reading order a few pages back

 

Squirrel girl

The vision by Tom King

Ms Marvel 

Moon girl and devil dinosaur 

Jason Aarons Thor run 

Nextwave

Silver surfer the Slott /Allred run 

Uncanny X-force by Rick Remender

Hawkeye by Matt Fraction 

 

That's a hell of a start tbh and I can continue if you want. 

That’s great, thanks a lot. I’ll add all those to my library and work my way through them. I’ll feedback on how I get on. Excited! 

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3 hours ago, Stopharage said:

That’s great, thanks a lot. I’ll add all those to my library and work my way through them. I’ll feedback on how I get on. Excited! 

If I was you I'd also leave the runs till last and focus on the other titles first. if your stuck for a reading order for hickman and Thor then let me know. 

 

 

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I didn't get on with Aaron's Thor run AT ALL. His 20 issue run on Doctor Strange, however, is the best the character has ever been written IMHO

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3 hours ago, sandman said:

I didn't get on with Aaron's Thor run AT ALL. His 20 issue run on Doctor Strange, however, is the best the character has ever been written IMHO

I agree, his run in Strange is phenomenal, and is possibly the only thing his written I have really loved.

 

His current run on Avengers has been very average so far.

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1 hour ago, sexton_hardcastle said:

Read X-Force/X-Statix by Peter Milligan & Mike Allred - especially as it’s just been announced as returning for another series. It is absolutely bonkers. 

Good I wish the Omni wasn't out of print cos I've never read it and it's not cheap. 

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I've just signed up to Marvel Unlimited as well..  I've never read any X-Men comics... are there any particularly epic runs/issues I should be reading? (I loved the 90s cartoon so hoping for that sort of vibe really!) 

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2 hours ago, Stoppy2000 said:

I've just signed up to Marvel Unlimited as well..  I've never read any X-Men comics... are there any particularly epic runs/issues I should be reading? (I loved the 90s cartoon so hoping for that sort of vibe really!) 

 

They did do a mini series that carried directly on from the 1990s cartoon but i cant remember the name off the top of my head but im sure google can help you out there. 

 

All the X-Men First Class stuff is aimed a lighter read so maybe worth you having a look those. 

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