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“SPOILER THREAD” - The Last Of Us Part 2


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Not much more than a limited edition Pro console really. And it’s a beautiful, one-of-a-kind piece of art that you can display on your wall forever. I can’t see how a real Last Of Us Part II fan could say no to one of these.

 

Spoiler

:P

 

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10 minutes ago, Vemsie said:


Abby's body double is Crossfit athlete Colleen Fotsch:
Colleen-Fotsch-4-1024x683.jpg

Her face is modeled after Jocelyn Mettler, who worked on Uncharted The Lost Legacy as a VFX artist.

34174435_2085359595065564_34388263006749

She is voiced by Laura Bailey.

 

I was convinced she was played by an actor I'd seen in a film or TV series, but who I just couldn't place. Turns out my brain just made that up. Same for Mel - I definitely recognised her from somewhere, but nope. Dina, too - turns out the person her likeness is based on isn't a known actress, either:

 

1280x720.jpg

 

I suppose it's a testament to the talent of the artists and animators that these characters remind you of people you think you know. I think the facial features and expressions are the most realistic I've ever seen. Ellie's expression when Joel gets killed is heartbreaking.

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2 minutes ago, MardiganX said:

I’ve just started me 2nd playthrough. The early scene where Joel sings to Ellie :( fuck me!

Yep, replaying this gives many scenes a certain resonance that you may not get on a first play.

 

Fuck ... WHAT. A. FUCKING. GAME. I feel like starting a third play, but no...

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Yeah, I really loved Grounded. I was hoping there would be some extras on the disc after finishing it, if only to spare me from a conveyor belt of YouTube thumbnails of people desperately trying not to get a proper job 

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44 minutes ago, Thor said:

Yep, replaying this gives many scenes a certain resonance that you may not get on a first play.

 

Fuck ... WHAT. A. FUCKING. GAME. I feel like starting a third play, but no...

 

I was holding my shit together right up until “Goodnight Kiddo” :unsure:

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On 25/06/2020 at 12:03, Thor said:

Regarding JJ, surely that's just short for Jesse Junior? I'm not convinced Dina would want her child to have the name Joel, even as a middle name. 

 

I’m certain it’s Joel and Jesse.  Why would Dina have a problem with that?  She knows how important Joel is to Ellie, it’s why they went on their bloody revenge trek after all.

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It's Jesse Joel. Also the horses at the start of the game have 'J's stamped on their hind legs which I noticed on my NG+ the other day, so when I was playing as Joel and talking to Tommy by the gate, I was like 'huh, J+J'.

 

Anyway, I started and completed this game launch weekend and I definitely would have preferred the Santa Barbara 'epilogue' to have been paid (or preferably free) DLC released in November/December and had a bit of a breather for 6 months to be honest. The game reaches a fairly satisfying end/stopping point at the farm (either before or after Tommy turning up) and for it to keep going and going is mentally exhausting to be honest. I can't think of any piece of story-driven media I've consumed where there appears to be an acceptable end point and for it to then keep going and going and going and for me to sit there and think 'yay!' My response is normally 'for fucks' sake'. Imagine if after Ellie's 'Okay' at the end of the first game, it then went straight into Left Behind DLC without a pause for breath. It's. too. much. to. take. in. at. once.

 

I'm guessing that the original plan was to release the game in February (with Ellie as the final 'boss' - which makes thematic sense) and the Santa Barbara DLC would have been released around now. I'm also assuming that because of the delay from February to May (to fix bugs?) plans changed somewhere to include the epilogue DLC as part of the whole story - which could also explain the weird 2-3 week delay from May to June as well to get it all working properly? I don't know.

 

I do think the game is fantastic and they have made big leaps in gameplay and tech, but the sequel is not as 'tight' and 'perfect' as the first game for me. It is also pretty clearly set up to be a trilogy and this is the Empire Strikes Back of the three where it's heavier going and all hope is lost, etc. It's not a super fun happy time game, that's for sure.

 

What must be difficult though for any narratively driven creative endeavour is to constantly keep a viewer or gamer second guessing where things are heading. Let's look at a list of things which happen in the game and if you would have predicted any of the following beforehand:

 

Joel being murdered within a few hours of the game starting. (Which definitely works to get the revenge story in motion).  I think most people would have expected him to either survive or die at the end of the game and be the big hero.

 

The main protagonist therefore is Ellie. But wait...

 

The murderer of Joel is suddenly a playable character for the second half of the game, so is actually not the antagonist but a protagonist? My head hurts! (Which eventually kinda works, but does suck momentum out of proceedings for a few hours).

 

Turns out also that Joel murdered Abby's Doctor Dad and doomed humanity in the process. Oops. Her revenge on Joel is understandable then I guess. (The issue I have with this though, is in the first game I shot the doctor in the leg first time round or punched/melee'd him on my second play through to get him out of the way, I didn't want or try to kill him). 

 

Ellie being the final boss. And then Abby later on. Not wanting to win either fight is completely bonkers and a first in video games for me.

 

You can't deny these are some bold storytelling moves by Naughty Dog. They definitely didn't play it safe at all. Kudos to them. It just needed someone with a pair of editing scissors or some restructuring to it's running order to make it truly shine.

 

Edge [9]

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17 minutes ago, AI1 said:

It's Jesse Joel. Also the horses at the start of the game have 'J's stamped on their hind legs which I noticed on my NG+ the other day, so when I was playing as Joel and talking to Tommy by the gate, I was like 'huh, J+J'.

 

Anyway, I started and completed this game launch weekend and I definitely would have preferred the Santa Barbara 'epilogue' to have been paid (or preferably free) DLC released in November/December and had a bit of a breather for 6 months to be honest. The game reaches a fairly satisfying end/stopping point at the farm (either before or after Tommy turning up) and for it to keep going and going is mentally exhausting to be honest. I can't think of any piece of story-driven media I've consumed where there appears to be an acceptable end point and for it to then keep going and going and going and for me to sit there and think 'yay!' My response is normally 'for fucks' sake'. Imagine if after Ellie's 'Okay' at the end of the first game, it then went straight into Left Behind DLC without a pause for breath. It's. too. much. to. take. in. at. once.

 

I'm guessing that the original plan was to release the game in February (with Ellie as the final 'boss' - which makes thematic sense) and the Santa Barbara DLC would have been released around now. I'm also assuming that because of the delay from February to May (to fix bugs?) plans changed somewhere to include the epilogue DLC as part of the whole story - which could also explain the weird 2-3 week delay from May to June as well to get it all working properly? I don't know.

 

I do think the game is fantastic and they have made big leaps in gameplay and tech, but the sequel is not as 'tight' and 'perfect' as the first game for me. It is also pretty clearly set up to be a trilogy and this is the Empire Strikes Back of the three where it's heavier going and all hope is lost, etc. It's not a super fun happy time game, that's for sure.

 

What must be difficult though for any narratively driven creative endeavour is to constantly keep a viewer or gamer second guessing where things are heading. Let's look at a list of things which happen in the game and if you would have predicted any of the following beforehand:

 

Joel being murdered within a few hours of the game starting. (Which definitely works to get the revenge story in motion).  I think most people would have expected him to either survive or die at the end of the game and be the big hero.

 

The main protagonist therefore is Ellie. But wait...

 

The murderer of Joel is suddenly a playable character for the second half of the game, so is actually not the antagonist but a protagonist? My head hurts! (Which eventually kinda works, but does suck momentum out of proceedings for a few hours).

 

Turns out also that Joel murdered Abby's Doctor Dad and doomed humanity in the process. Oops. Her revenge on Joel is understandable then I guess. (The issue I have with this though, is in the first game I shot the doctor in the leg first time round or punched/melee'd him on my second play through to get him out of the way, I didn't want or try to kill him). 

 

Ellie being the final boss. And then Abby later on. Not wanting to win either fight is completely bonkers and a first in video games for me.

 

You can't deny these are some bold storytelling moves by Naughty Dog. They definitely didn't play it safe at all. Kudos to them. It just needed someone with a pair of editing scissors or some restructuring to it's running order to make it truly shine.

 

Edge [9]


And yet without the Santa Barbara all those risks you say they took in the narrative are incomplete. I won’t deny that it needed stronger editing but not there imo. Santa Barbara is essential to Ellie’s journey and growth and without it we wouldn’t have the best moment in the game, which is the porch scene. :)

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Exactly. I'm not saying remove it, I'm saying release it later on. I needed a mental breather at that point. But it kept going...

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But maybe that was the intention? To make you sick and tired of killing and vengeance? If so, I guess it worked then. Hmm.

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6 minutes ago, AI1 said:

But maybe that was the intention? To make you sick and tired of killing and vengeance? If so, I guess it worked then. Hmm.


Exactly. As a player you need the exhaustion, you need to not “care” any more, you need this to be over and see Ellie stop. That is why, for me, the fact that she doesn’t kill Abby is so important. It’s a huge risk to try to align the story to the players’ feelings at that moment but imo they pull it off.

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That’s definitely why they do it, it just pushes it to further and further extremes, to the point where the rattlers seemed to have reached new levels of depravity. It’s like, please just stop. 

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1 hour ago, AI1 said:

I'm guessing that the original plan was to release the game in February (with Ellie as the final 'boss' - which makes thematic sense) and the Santa Barbara DLC would have been released around now. I'm also assuming that because of the delay from February to May (to fix bugs?) plans changed somewhere to include the epilogue DLC as part of the whole story - which could also explain the weird 2-3 week delay from May to June as well to get it all working properly? I don't know.

 

High five! I do wish they had done that. Imagine knowing more content is coming in a few months. Would be amazing.

 

On 29/06/2020 at 00:32, mexos said:

I have a sat on the bog theory having just finished the game. The original release date was what, Feb? 

 

This is a stretch but... What if the game (on release) was going to end in the theatre or one of the billions of places where the could have ended it early.
 

The Santa Barbara bit feels like it was going to be part of some DLC. It feels like they decided to use the extra time to weave it into the game for release.
 

Time in the game has past, it’s got a very different look to it. I think there could be something in it.

 

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The only other game I can think of that does something similar is Red Dead Redemption. Both of them actually. They take you to a point where a natural ending is achieved but then subvert expectations by having a period of 'normal life' gameplay before things reach the true and ultimately fitting ending. The strength of those true endings is only achieved because both Rockstar and NG take the risk letting things dip before cranking it back up again.

 

RDR actually revels in both 'normal life' sections where LoU2 uses it to simply reinforce the story they are telling, but the purpose is the same. Allow the player to see that a normal life for these characters is something they are never going to have. 

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Yeah, I can't believe the final chapter was ever meant to be DLC.

 

It would an interesting thing to see a developer do one day though - just bolt on an extra episode post-release that completely changed the ending of their game.

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There's a spoiler-filled interview with Neil Druckmann on Eurogamer. I don't know what's harder, reading it while shaking your head or reading it through your fingers. You'll end up doing plenty of both given some of the statements he comes out with. Makes you wonder how anything got out of the gate at all 

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52 minutes ago, BadgerFarmer said:

Yeah, I can't believe the final chapter was ever meant to be DLC.

 

It would an interesting thing to see a developer do one day though - just bolt on an extra episode post-release that completely changed the ending of their game.

 

Doesn't really completely change the ending though does it? It just concludes the story a few months later as DLC rather than right away. (if it was planned DLC that is).

 

Maybe rather than DLC, the Santa Barbara chapter unlocks in the main menu after completing the main game? I think I would have preferred that to be honest. Maybe even give the player the option as playing as Ellie or Abby from the start also? I honestly don't know how to improve the structure of the game. All I know is it wasn't quite right for me.

 

Still an incredible piece of work though.

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5 hours ago, Talk Show Host said:


And yet without the Santa Barbara all those risks you say they took in the narrative are incomplete. I won’t deny that it needed stronger editing but not there imo. Santa Barbara is essential to Ellie’s journey and growth and without it we wouldn’t have the best moment in the game, which is the porch scene. :)

 

Which one's the porch scene?  (If anybody answers "the scene on the porch" I'll kill their dog :P)

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