Jump to content
rllmuk
Dr_Dave

MiSTer: FPGA gaming

Recommended Posts

It's good, and I love this kind of tech, but thinking rationally it's something for the future as far as I'm concerned. When the power increases and ass-pain systems to emulate (like the Xbox) can be mimicked, then we're talking. 

 

Not that I'm discouraging the Whales from funding all this so we get that progress, mind ;)

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’m about to pull the trigger on one of these so great timing in the thread @Dr_Dave  

 

I like the look of your case, did you get that from RetroShop?  I’ve browsed their Facebook store and can’t see it. I’m keen to get that one myself as it looks bette than other ones I’ve seen. Would you mind sharing a link to where I can buy one please?

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Rob_Pulsar said:

I’m about to pull the trigger on one of these so great timing in the thread @Dr_Dave  

 

I like the look of your case, did you get that from RetroShop?  I’ve browsed their Facebook store and can’t see it. I’m keen to get that one myself as it looks bette than other ones I’ve seen. Would you mind sharing a link to where I can buy one please?

 

Honestly, the best thing to do is just send an FB message to Retroshop. He doesn't keep his Facebook page up to date particularly well, but he'll happily point out what you need. I got all of my setup from Ricardo, including the case - all fully assembled. With the case, and three main components, plus a few extra bits and a VGA > Scart cable, it came to about €300. Pricey, but I love it.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been onboard the MiSTer train for nearly a year now, the system has progressed so much during the time of my ownership. The NES, Megadrive & SNES cores easily match those that are on the Analogue NT Mini, Mega SG, & Super NT systems. And then theres all the other cores. PC Engine is very good albeit with a few small niggling issues. Most 8-bit cores run extremely well. The Amiga core is very mature and cores like the Spectrum, Amstrad CPC & C64 all run very well too.

 

The most exciting developement of recent times is the Neo Geo Core. While it still hasn't been officially released many people have got their hands on the beta builds and everything seems to work extremely well. However, due to the size of some Neo Geo games the 32MB ram module that most users currently have isn't enough to run some of the more "in demand" Neo Geo games .... Metal Slug 3 & 4, the Later KOF games, SNK Vs Capcom, Garou to name a few. The project leader is currently investigating increasing the ram to accomodate these games so if you're interested in these you may want to hold off for a little while until the final design of the new ram board is finalized. (People are selling 64MB ram boards but these are unofficial designs at the moment, plus it's looking likely it may go to 128MB).

.

For the entry cost I don't think there's any better alternative to the MiSTer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, shiffy said:

For the entry cost I don't think there's any better alternative to the MiSTer

 

Especially given last week's development of being able to get analogue video out of the HDMI port - one less reason to need the IO board now.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, kernow said:

I'm wondering if this will do cave sh3 eventually

Might be a purchase then 

 

While I'm not familiar with "Cave SH3" (I'm assuming it's a specific board a la CPS1 or CPS2) I do know that DoDonpachi is in the works. This video isn't from a DE10-Nano FPGA but the author plans to port it to MiSTer at some point. No doubt this open the door for other Cave shooters. I'm very excited about this!

 

 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I quite fancy one of these for my CRT set-up. Something new and shiny to tinker with.

 

Costly though, taking a system like the PC engine or SNES I assume the main difference I'd see is performance consistent with a real machine - and reduced lag from my current PI set up?

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Coming from the world of a Pi, you will see an immense difference. Although I use the MiSTer over HDMI and have only experienced the "open source scaler", which apparently rivals that of the OSSC, I gather the majority of users do use this with a CRT. Up until a few weeks ago you needed to buy the I/O board if you wanted to use a CRT or monitor. But as the head of the MiSTer project has developed a way of getting an analogue signal from the HDMI port you no longer need to buy the I/O board. I haven't looked too closely at this aspect yet, but apparently all you need is one of these. There's more info on the Atari-Forums & Discord. While there are still the odd niggling issues on certain cores, for the most part you'll be hard pushed to tell the difference between real hardware and the MiSTer.

 

I think for intially outlay, the MiSTer represents the best value for money you're going to get from any "retro gaming system" now or a few years down the line. As you've mentioned the PC Engine I'll use that as my example, but I'm way out of touch with prices though.

 

PC Engine console = £100 - £140 if Ebay is to believed, RGB mods, either a collection of games or an Everdrive at £80

Then add in a SNES, the console will be a bit cheaper maybe, a collection of games or an Everdrive £90 / SD2SNES £160.

DE10-Nano cost - £130, SDram - £25 aprox, I/O board - £36 on Ebay at the moment but better to use the Atari forums,128GB MicroSD - £17,

 

For about £200 on the complete MiSTer setup you'll get accurate FPGA recreations / representations of the two consoles you mentioned, an Everdrive for each console core you install, if you're using HDMI then you're effectively getting an OSSC as well.

 

Let's say you're someone looking to get into retro and your 3 main systems of interest are Megadrive, Snes & PC Engine. Good working condition consoles will set you back quite a bit. A collection of games could be hundreds of pounds if not thousands, 3 Everdrives for the systems (assuming the best - SD2SNES pro, MD Everdrive X7 & Turbo Everdrive) would set you back £370 or there abouts. An OSSC is about £130 I believe. And that's only 3 systems. What if you're into the 8-bit stuff as well? Going the original hardware route, more expense. But the MiSTer has you covered as you already have everything you need.

 

£200 may seem like a large initial outlay (remember I'm factoring in the cost of an I/O board, it's looking very likely that will be phased out) but it really isn't when you think of it in terms as laid out above. If you also enjoy tinkering then you won't regret getting this. Admittedly, the recent "update scripts" take some of the fun out of this aspect (I had the MiSTer prior to the existance of these update scripts and you had to do everything manually) but there's a nice INI file you can edit to your heart's content to taylor settings specifically to your needs. In my case I added an option to display the image correctly on an old 16x10 monitor I occasionally use and not have the image distorted vertically in any way. The MiSTer is highly configureable in ways like this.

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cheers for all that info, i think you made have convinced me to take the plunge.

 

So i’d need the De-10, a memory expansion, a HDMI to VGA adaptor, and then a VGA to RGB SCART adaptor I’m guessing. No need for I/O board by the sounds of it.... 

 

Watched the videos in the OP and I’m quite excited about playing some sweet sweet old computers...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Neo Geo stuff is really good, even with 32Mb. 

 

I've been looking for a suitable controller to play them with, but not having much look. For some reason, SNK gimped the USB pad that came with the Neo Geo Mini so it won't work with normal USB connections. Anyone got any recommendations?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Dr_Dave said:

The Neo Geo stuff is really good, even with 32Mb. 

 

I've been looking for a suitable controller to play them with, but not having much look. For some reason, SNK gimped the USB pad that came with the Neo Geo Mini so it won't work with normal USB connections. Anyone got any recommendations?

 

If you want a stick, there are billions of great ones that will work right out of the box. 

 

If you want to replicate the clicky SNK pad, that's significantly trickier I reckon, unless anyone here knows of an existing one that uses standard USB? 

 

Modding might be possible; I'll check into it and get back to you @Dr_Dave

 

Edit: OK, so according to a review on Amazon you can use these on PC and Pi. The question is, why would you want to when there are no miroswitches? :(

 

If you definitely want a pad rather than a stick, the 8bitdo range might be a good option. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What about a USB Saturn pad? Or pick up a Xbox 360 fightstick?

 

im gonna take the plunge on this. I assume it’s worthwhile waiting for 128mg sdram to be released? Retroshop reckons it’ll be 2-3 weeks. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Treble said:

 

Edit: OK, so according to a review on Amazon you can use these on PC and Pi. The question is, why would you want to when there are no miroswitches? :(

 

 

Ha! Well, I bought one of the Competition Pro joystick replicas and the microswitches are so loud I've been banned from using it... so microswitches not necessarily the selling point they once might have been :)

 

I've actually already got the 8bitdo SNES and MD pads, and I'm trying to use appropriate controllers for the platform I'm playing. Hence looking for an appropriate Neo Geo pad for those games. Ideally, it would be an USB replica full size Neo Geo stick, but SNK don't seem to have the commercial sense to sell those :)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Dr_Dave said:

 

Ha! Well, I bought one of the Competition Pro joystick replicas and the microswitches are so loud I've been banned from using it... so microswitches not necessarily the selling point they once might have been :)

 

I've actually already got the 8bitdo SNES and MD pads, and I'm trying to use appropriate controllers for the platform I'm playing. Hence looking for an appropriate Neo Geo pad for those games. Ideally, it would be an USB replica full size Neo Geo stick, but SNK don't seem to have the commercial sense to sell those :)

 

 

I love the aesthetic design, but it was never actually that good a stick to use, truth be told :/

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Dr_Dave said:

 

Ooooh, I forgot about the Neo Geo X... Anyone used the sticks?

 

I had one of these a while back. I’ve never played on a real neo geo stick but I did think the buttons were a bit chunky / plastic feeling. Not on a par with sanwa buttons. Looked nice though :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Dr_Dave said:

 

Ooooh, I forgot about the Neo Geo X... Anyone used the sticks?

 

Yes. I recently got one of these NG-X sticks hoping to get some authenticity with the Neo Geo core as I'm also one of these people who must the right pad for the right core. 8bitdo SN30 for the Snes core, M30 for the MD core ... etc! I have to confess I've never used a genuine Neo stick. Two words of advice on the Neo Geo X sticks though ....... DON'T BOTHER!

 

They're very clunky, I can't think of the right words to describe it but it feels as if the buttons get caught on the housing unless you press them dead centre. They just don't feel that good to me, and this was after reading / watching reviews with people saying they are okay and  close enough to the original stick. Either I got a duff unit or the quality of the Neo Geo stick was not that high to begin with. Nearly a decade ago I got myself one of those Madcatz Streetfighter sticks for the 360 (the more expensive Sanwa variation which I can't remember the exact name of at this moment). This stick has become my go to stick for the Neo Geo core. Any Xbox360 / PS3 USB stick will do I guess as anything is better than the Neo Geo X stick.

 

 

On 06/09/2019 at 22:29, watusi said:

Cheers for all that info, i think you made have convinced me to take the plunge.

 

So i’d need the De-10, a memory expansion, a HDMI to VGA adaptor, and then a VGA to RGB SCART adaptor I’m guessing. No need for I/O board by the sounds of it.... 

 

Watched the videos in the OP and I’m quite excited about playing some sweet sweet old computers...

 

Yay, another convert .... you won't be disappointed! In all seriousness, now the Neo Core is out officially the usual MiSTer Youtubers will do their usual with promoting it. And becuase of the mythical / legendary status of the Neo Geo this is going to put the MiSTer on the map. We're going to see it's popularity explode now, mark my words!

 

Here's the original thread on the Atari Forums relating to the analogue video without the I/O boad. Because I already have the I/O board this new technique for analogue video isn't something I've looked into. But it will be a hell of a lot cheaper than the I/O board, that I can guarantee you! But if you opt for this new method then you won't need the I/O board. As this new method is only a couple of weeks old there might be issues that I'm unaware of. Any bugs will be ironed though as the self-appointed project leader is excellent in that respect. The I/O board has a proven track record, and it might still be useful further down the line for something (2nd SD card slot, an input for tape decks for Speccy/C64/Amstrad tapes). It may still have a role to play if anyone starts to look more into the computer side of things (Sharp X68000, a beefier Windows 95 spec maybe). But as it stands I think the I/O board will go the way of the dinosaur.

 

You will definitely need the SDRAM expansion. Now that the 128MB version is official and the final design is in th hands of the resellers / board builders (as of two days ago) you might as well future-proof yourself and get this new version. Nobody will have this 128MB version in stock yet, all vendors are estimating 2-3 weeks as they're all buying these ram chips from the same two outlets.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, shiffy said:

Yay, another convert .... you won't be disappointed! In all seriousness, now the Neo Core is out officially the usual MiSTer Youtubers will do their usual with promoting it. And becuase of the mythical / legendary status of the Neo Geo this is going to put the MiSTer on the map. We're going to see it's popularity explode now, mark my words!

 

Here's the original thread on the Atari Forums relating to the analogue video without the I/O boad. Because I already have the I/O board this new technique for analogue video isn't something I've looked into. But it will be a hell of a lot cheaper than the I/O board, that I can guarantee you! But if you opt for this new method then you won't need the I/O board. As this new method is only a couple of weeks old there might be issues that I'm unaware of. Any bugs will be ironed though as the self-appointed project leader is excellent in that respect. The I/O board has a proven track record, and it might still be useful further down the line for something (2nd SD card slot, an input for tape decks for Speccy/C64/Amstrad tapes). It may still have a role to play if anyone starts to look more into the computer side of things (Sharp X68000, a beefier Windows 95 spec maybe). But as it stands I think the I/O board will go the way of the dinosaur.

 

You will definitely need the SDRAM expansion. Now that the 128MB version is official and the final design is in th hands of the resellers / board builders (as of two days ago) you might as well future-proof yourself and get this new version. Nobody will have this 128MB version in stock yet, all vendors are estimating 2-3 weeks as they're all buying these ram chips from the same two outlets.

 

Yeah I've been musing on the I/O board, had some discussions with Ricardo from Retroshop and it's around £300 for the ultimate Mister Kit fitted with DE-10 and 32MB memory. It looks lovely but I kind of feel I'm better of just getting the barebones DE-10 for now, and waiting on the 128MB board. I don't need anything other than USB ports, analogue out and a bob load of memory to run Neo Geo stuff. £150 best spend elsewhere....

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, watusi said:

 

Yeah I've been musing on the I/O board, had some discussions with Ricardo from Retroshop and it's around £300 for the ultimate Mister Kit fitted with DE-10 and 32MB memory. It looks lovely but I kind of feel I'm better of just getting the barebones DE-10 for now, and waiting on the 128MB board. I don't need anything other than USB ports, analogue out and a bob load of memory to run Neo Geo stuff. £150 best spend elsewhere....

 

 

I tend to agree with you and it was the route I went down. I never got the dedicated USB board, instead using a cheap USB hub from Amazon. I only got a cheap case months after I already had the DE-10. While it would be nice to have that case shown in the first post I felt that while various boards are being designed or changed , like the Blisster or LLcooljoy controller or USB boards, and the project as a whole being in a state of flux I would leave the case until things had settled down. There's money to be saved by scrimping on a few of what I consider to be the more luxurious items of the MiSTer package, and using the new analogue video method instead of the I/O board will save you a chunk of change.
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Woohoo! It's arrived. Just the DE10-Nano though, not ordered any add-ons as yet.

 

I'm planning to wait till 128 boards are available, I'm guessing without the extra ram my options are limited?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, watusi said:

Woohoo! It's arrived. Just the DE10-Nano though, not ordered any add-ons as yet.

 

I'm planning to wait till 128 boards are available, I'm guessing without the extra ram my options are limited?

If memory serves (and someone has just confirmed this on Discord for me), the PC Engine & Megadrive cores don't use the SDram at all, and I don't believe that any of the arcade cores do either. So, between those two consoles and the Arcade cores you should have enough to play around with and get set up while you wait for the 128 SDram.
 

I can't remember if the setup instructions are up above, but go here to get the Windows program to initially set up the SD card. Then grab the UPDATE.SH script from here. Put it on the SD card, open the scripts option on MiSTer (F12 on a keyboard), run the script and all the cores, pallettes, cheats, etc will be pulled from Github.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cool, though I’ve just realised I need to get a us to uk plug adaptor so I can power the thing! 

 

Ill get the sd card prepped in the meantime. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The power adapter is duel voltage, so no need to worry about stepdowns. I found a shaving adapter in Sainbury's that seems to take any form of plug for a few quid. I'm sure you'll find one for a couple of quid.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How exciting, my 128MB SDRAM arrives tomorrow. Not been able to fiddle much with this so far due ot the lack of memory. Mainly been busy testing different HDMI > VGA adaptors for compatibility. I do love how fast it is, not pretty but efficient. Just like me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You'll be in for a treat once you've got your sdram in. Mine won't arrive for a few more weeks sadly, but I'm patient and can wait a while longer. In 13 months I've watched the MiSTer grow from something that, quite frankly, was very rough around the edges even to the point where I questioned my original purchase of the MiSTer to something that matches Analogue's three machines (which are the benchmark by which most people measure by these days) and more than outperform any of the mini consoles and a Raspberry Pi I'm in no hurry to receive mine. I've watched the MiSter grow with huge improvements in cores, where as you're joining in at the stage where the popular cores are effectively the best they're going to be .... maybe just a bit of spit and polish here and there. Having said that, I still believe there are some big tings to come. CPS1, CPS2 possibly, and the creator of the Snes core, SRG30, has recently been looking at the Megadrive core with speculation that he's working on a Mega CD core. The latest big name to get involved in Byuu of Bsnes & Higan fame.

 

What cores are you looking forward to trying the most, and what games have you got earmarked to try?

 

I actually like the user interface. While the interface on the Analogue machines is ok and you can refine things to your taste the interface on the MiSTer is very clean, uncluttered. Everything is self-explanatory and easy to understand and there's none of the bloat that you get with the Retroarch interface.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

yeah the interface and fast, simple and clean. I like that. 

 

I've tinkered with the genesis core but I've never been a fan tbh outside of the mega Turrican. For me I'm looking forward to firing up the NeoGeo and SNES cores to see what they can do but mainly Minimig. The prospect of having an accurate Amiga to tinker with is quite enticing and I've found emulating it on My shield and Pi's to be pain in the arse.

 

I also love Bombjack so that was straight on there.

 

I'm running this through HMDI > VGA > Scart rather than an I/O board so not all cores support that option yet.

 

Core and roms have been installed and patiently waiting the memory....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. Use of this website is subject to our Privacy Policy, Terms of Use, and Guidelines.