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ann coulter

Spoiler culture and E3 - where do you stand?

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2 hours ago, ann coulter said:

I understand he isn't directly leaking in this instance, but he's arguing in favour of it.

 

I don't think he is arguing in favour. He's saying he disagrees with the idea that premature release of marketing is a spoiler in the traditional sense when it's just carefully orchestrated hype.

 

I agree that ideally, people who want to be surprised during the conference should be able to experience it that way. But short of not using the internet for the week before E3 there doesn't seem to be a way to avoid this stuff, other than for the organisations involved to get better at keeping things under wraps until they're revealed. For example, how did Ninja Theory's game leak when they're owned by MS? You'd think there'd be no need for anyone other than MS to be involved at this stage and it's been badly recorded (with no audio) from a TV.

 

Briefing retailers to sell pre-orders months or years in advance(!) and other pre-announcement activity is probably what results in most of these leaks.

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I absolutely love the hype of press conferences. Even though viewed at any other moment they are terrible to watch, at that exact moment they can be intensely exciting. Even though I think it’s basically just adverts and I don’t ultimately care when I learn that stuff.

 

It is not a journalists job to preserve that for me. If the companies revealing stuff can’t keep it secret that’s their failure. Clearly Shrier knows about tonnes of games that aren’t announced yet, but he’s not just dropping that shit constantly. As usual, he’s corroborating other journalists, probably in part because of the aggressive, hostile attitudes people online have towards journalism.

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1 hour ago, Phil said:

But short of not using the internet for the week before E3 there doesn't seem to be a way to avoid this stuff, other than for the organisations involved to get better at keeping things under wraps until they're revealed.

 

This isn't true though. If it hadn't been reported on Eurogamer and Kotaku etc. then it'd have been very easy to avoid - just don't go on Resetera for a week.

I'm not sure that "breaking someone else's embargo about a marketing conference" really counts as journalism, but it'll certainly get clicks.

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I'm not sure this is embargo-breaking. If the information is in the public domain because of someone else's leak I think any existing embargoes would be moot, and it seems like Eurogamer and Kotaku didn't have any embargoed information to disclose anyway.

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3 hours ago, The Mighty Ash said:

Would Jason Schrier be happy if someone announced his next book before he had a chance to?

I dunno. If someone cared enough about my next book to think it was worth announcing, I'd be over the moon.

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So do you agree that there should be no game announcements at E3? Publishers or developers should announce each game as soon as the decision is made to begin development, as per movies, and E3 should be used to demo games we all know are coming? No conferences or presentations as there's nothing to announce, but plenty of demos for journos to play and report on?

 

I think E3 would lose a lot of its appeal that way, honestly.

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For me it's just that the likes of Jason Schreier aren't actually providing any sort of customer service by leaking information on a game a day or two before E3 starts. Other than generating clicks to the website he works for and potentially boosting his profile, what benefit does it have? None as far as I can see. So yeah, I don't see the point beyond self-interest and honestly would prefer that he didn't do it purely because I do find the surprises exciting. I'm not going to get really annoyed over it though, I'll just do my best to avoid reading any of the details about the leaks. 

 

Game announcements shouldn't be used as a marketing strategy, but Twitter names should be (Book out now!).

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18 minutes ago, ann coulter said:

So do you agree that there should be no game announcements at E3? Publishers or developers should announce each game as soon as the decision is made to begin development, as per movies, and E3 should be used to demo games we all know are coming? No conferences or presentations as there's nothing to announce, but plenty of demos for journos to play and report on?

 

I think E3 would lose a lot of its appeal that way, honestly.

 

Because ComicCon and D23 are completely devoid of hype and excitement? If e3 was just where we saw the games for the first time they would still be exciting. You only need to look at Fallout 76 to see that these press conferences are explicitly designed to generate pre-orders by only releasing key information. It's a journalist's job to try to avoid them being able to do that.

 

7 minutes ago, The Mighty Ash said:

 

What a weird tweet. Why shouldn't they be used as part of a marketing strategy?

 

Because games are so big now that it's impossible to keep them secret, so it's a waste of time.

 

1 minute ago, Radish said:

For me it's just that the likes of Jason Schreier aren't actually providing any sort of customer service by leaking information on a game a day or two before E3 starts. Other than generating clicks to the website he works for and potentially boosting his profile, what benefit does it have? None as far as I can see. So yeah, I don't see the point beyond self-interest and honestly would prefer that he didn't do it because I do find the surprises exciting. I'm not going to get really annoyed over it though, I'll just do my best to avoid reading any of the details about the leaks. 

 

Game announcements shouldn't be used as a marketing strategy, but Twitter names should be (Book out now!).

 

I can't think of anything he's personally leaked the announcement of, he just corroborates leaks as a reputable source, probably in order to avoid the kind of harassment and abuse you get if you say something people don't like hearing online.

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3 minutes ago, Broker said:

Because ComicCon and D23 are completely devoid of hype and excitement? If e3 was just where we saw the games for the first time they would still be exciting. You only need to look at Fallout 76 to see that these press conferences are explicitly designed to generate pre-orders by only releasing key information. It's a journalist's job to try to avoid them being able to do that.

 

I don't understand how a journalist reporting 'We can confirm that a new Fallout game called Fallout 76 will be revealed at Bethesda's conference in two hours' time' or whatever prevents gullible gamers from being coerced into preordering it. That's the kind of reporting/leaking this thread is about, not exposés of misleading advertising, which everyone here is certainly in favour of.

 

So let's agree that E3 is now the place where games are not announced but at least unveiled and demonstrated for the first time. Do you think it's the journalist's or Twitter insider's responsibility to leak the trailers, game footage and gameplay details before the event begins? I mean, in the majority of instances I couldn't care less either, but we might as well cancel E3 entirely by that point and save everyone the effort of attending.

 

I don't really know what ComicCon or D23 are, by the way.

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Schreier leaked a couple of Ubisoft games on his podcast recently and seems to think he's "serving the readers" by doing so. How, exactly? What benefit does knowing some details about their upcoming games prior to the official reveal have? It's purely self interest.

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6 hours ago, Qazimod said:

I think spoilers are fine if you're sceptical, because you can just treat everything as rumour and be pleasantly surprised if something turns out to be real. "So I heard that in 2015 Sony will reveal The Last Guardian, announce an FFVII remake and give stage presence to the Shenmue 3 kickstarter" - yeah, okay mate.

 

Speaking of that year: imagine if the Gametrailers staff had been told about Shenmue 3 in advance. We'd never have got this:

 

 

I normally have little time for audio-clippingly loud reaction videos, but that one is the joyous exception. :wub:

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Quite easy to avoid them just go media blackout & enjoy the press conferences.

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I don’t like them. They don’t serve any purpose other than ruining the press conferences. What’s the point of watching a press conference if you already know what’s in it? Rather than getting excited about a new From game, we just need the blanks filled in. We know what it’s called and the JRR Martin thing is true. Great. 

 

The highs and lows of guessing at what dramatic reveals are are one of the best things about press conferences. 

 

@gospvg I don’t think they’re that easy to avoid. I can’t keep up with everything that’s happening at E3 and turn to places like Eurogamer for news, like what’s been announced today at the EA conference, but half the site is filled with spoilers I’d rather not know about. 

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@HarryBizzle I avoid all websites until I have watched the press conferences then I’ll go and read them to pick up on the details for announced games. Pretty easy to do I’ve been doing it the past few years, no way I’m staying awake to watch the Square or Bethesda conference.

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To get all uppity about someone spoiling an announcement or a trailer for a game is just odd. If someone is that spoiler averse, wouldn't watching any of E3 spoil the actual game itself when that person comes round to actually being able to sit down and play it? 

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3 minutes ago, multiclunk said:

To get all uppity about someone spoiling an announcement or a trailer for a game is just odd. If someone is that spoiler averse, wouldn't watching any of E3 spoil the actual game itself when that person comes round to actually being able to sit down and play it? 

 

This doesn’t make any sense. The exciting thing about E3 is new games being revealed. “A very exciting game you will probably like is going to be made and here’s a trailer to get you pumped!”

 

You’re spoiling the surprise, not the game. 

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2 hours ago, ann coulter said:

 

I don't understand how a journalist reporting 'We can confirm that a new Fallout game called Fallout 76 will be revealed at Bethesda's conference in two hours' time' or whatever prevents gullible gamers from being coerced into preordering it. That's the kind of reporting/leaking this thread is about, not exposés of misleading advertising, which everyone here is certainly in favour of.

 

So let's agree that E3 is now the place where games are not announced but at least unveiled and demonstrated for the first time. Do you think it's the journalist's or Twitter insider's responsibility to leak the trailers, game footage and gameplay details before the event begins? I mean, in the majority of instances I couldn't care less either, but we might as well cancel E3 entirely by that point and save everyone the effort of attending.

 

I don't really know what ComicCon or D23 are, by the way.

 

Yeah, if they can get their hands on the trailers first they should leak them. It’s literally their job to report video game news when it is available. It’s extremely rare that these things are reported by a journalist who leaks them, the vast majority of the time they leak on 4chan or Twitter. At that point the information is moving around reddit and people start hearing little pieces of it. At that point, as a journalist, it’s useful to put out a description of what is leaked and what’s actually known. The FromSoftware game that people are disappointed about having leaked was put up on the Bandai Namco website by Bandai Namco. Once that information is out, you’re going to hear it through YouTube or twitter or on here. It’s more useful for a reputable journalist to provide a well written, informative piece about what was leaked and where than for it to just be randomly out there. That’s the reality of the situation, and people being upset that they couldn’t go on Eurogamer for a day or two isn’t going to make much difference.

 

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50 minutes ago, Broker said:

Yeah, if they can get their hands on the trailers first they should leak them. It’s literally their job to report video game news when it is available.

 

Even Schreier doesn't believe this, despite his obvious loathing of the secretive culture of games development.

 

I agree with the rest of your post for the most part, that once the information is already out there it's fair and useful to report on it, although we're maybe getting a little carried away with ourselves (I started the thread, after all) in our descriptions of Valiant, Reputable Journalists publishing a bit of Very Serious, Informative Copy about ... some nerd on Twitter leaking a computer game.

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2 hours ago, HarryBizzle said:

 

This doesn’t make any sense. The exciting thing about E3 is new games being revealed. “A very exciting game you will probably like is going to be made and here’s a trailer to get you pumped!”

 

You’re spoiling the surprise, not the game. 

 

You might not agree with what I'm saying but it does make sense.

 

The hypothetical spoiler averse person, crying about spoilers before the trailers are officially aired, seems quite happy to eagerly await and then gobble up the thing (an E3 trailer) that could be spoiler filled for the actual game itself.

 

Take a look at many of the new movie threads on here for an example of the spoiler averse thought process, where plenty of people announce they are going on a 'media blackout' in case of spoilers in the trailers for the next Jurassic Park or whatever.  But the very same gamers (assuming that most people who contribute here, are here because that's what they are) will quite happily watch a show full of game trailers? 

 

To paraphrase you back to yourself-

STUDIO SAYS - "A very exciting movie you will probably like is going to be made and here’s a trailer to get you pumped!'

 

However-

THE INTERNET RESPONDS - 'Fuck that, I'm going on a media blackout until I can see it in my local cinema, just in case of spoilers'

 

But what you are saying is that there's no reason for any media blackout if it's just a case of spoiling the surprise, not the movie. 

 

Is there a difference between a movie spoiler in a trailer & a game spoiler in a trailer? 

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I’m reminded of years ago when Kotaku (Brian Crecente at the time, I think) leaked the reveal of PlayStation Home and Little Big Planet literally a few hours before they were unveiled at a GDC speech.

 

Who did that serve? Who benefited from that? I think Schreier’s reddit post above has it right. If they’re uncovering some kind of scandal that’s one thing. As is just confirming info that’s already out there. But what’s the point in just ruining a reveal? If you’re into videogames enough to actually watch the E3 conferences I refuse to believe you’ve never enjoyed being surprised by some unexpected amazing announcement. Having this stuff spoiled is very far from the worst thing that can happen to you, and we should all keep this in perspective, but it’s a pity that I know about that GRRM Fromsoft game ahead of time, it would have been cool to have been surprised by it.

 

And spare us from judgement for daring to participate in commercialism. I guess you guys can just indulge in those perfectly socialist hobbies and interests instead. If/when we live in a fully automated luxury gay space communist world there will probably still be people who put on events to announce new videogames being made, and people will still be excited to see new and surprising games there.

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1 hour ago, multiclunk said:

To paraphrase you back to yourself-

STUDIO SAYS - "A very exciting movie you will probably like is going to be made and here’s a trailer to get you pumped!'

 

However-

THE INTERNET RESPONDS - 'Fuck that, I'm going on a media blackout until I can see it in my local cinema, just in case of spoilers'

 

 

Oh right, I assumed you were going on people like me who care about one kind of these spoilers but not the other, but it seems you’ve checked “THE INTERNET” and can speak with authority for everyone. 

 

Fair enough, carry on!

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Ok @HarryBizzle, I've never got into an internet argument before (apart from that 1 time with AngryH, but that's inevitable isn't it if you're  normal) and I'm not going to restart now with you, about something so inconsequential

 

You've taken 1 section of my post and tried to turn it back around on me with a bit of sarcasm thrown in.- and that' is weak of you. However, I

don't claim to speak with any authority at all about this subject. I was only expressing an opinion. The use of CAPS in the bit you selectively quoted was just to emphasize my made up quotes, but you already knew that I think

 

Anyway, forget all that, I sincerely hope you can enjoy E3, spoiler free. And I'll enjoy it whatever I see or hear about it beforehand I hope.

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6 hours ago, Comrade said:

it’s a pity that I know about that GRRM Fromsoft game ahead of time, it would have been cool to have been surprised by it.

Ahead of what time? An arbitrarily designated time slot when a trailer will be broadcast online? Why not find out another time a few days earlier? Wasn't it still a surprise?

 

More generally, I suppose I'm struggling with this because it never really occured to me that people actually enjoy these conferences. I always thought of them as exercises in tedium to be endured in order to get at the handful of potentially interesting announcements within. If they could publish a list of the games to be featured beforehand, or even just dump a load of trailers on YT instead of having the conference at all, it would be preferable.

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16 hours ago, Vorgot said:

I recently sat and watched 2 Persona concerts (which were great in their own right) to catch an trailer (or advert) for 2 new Persona games at the end, and for me that was exciting and interesting because I have invested a lot of time in that franchise in the past, and I'll be spending a shedload of time on these games in the future.

 

I don’t know if I bothered with the concerts, but I did endure that mammoth stream that dropped the initial reveal of P5 - y’know, a minute of chairs and curious English:

 

 

Worth it. :unsure: 

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42 minutes ago, BadgerFarmer said:

Ahead of what time? An arbitrarily designated time slot when a trailer will be broadcast online? Why not find out another time a few days earlier? Wasn't it still a surprise?

 

 

Here's the difference for me: I'm a massive Zelda fan (see username obviously) and the first reveal of a new 3D Zelda will always be a big deal to me.

 

Do I want the first reveal of a new Zelda to be a complete surprise at the end of a Nintendo conference, as it suddenly dawns on me that the trailer I'm watching...could it be? Fuck yes, it's Zelda! And the art style and premise and mechanics are all completely new to me as I watch the trailer. Or do I want the reveal to be logging onto the internet one day and seeing 'new Zelda leaked' along with a dry description of the premise and features and maybe a couple of blurry screenshots?

 

The end result is the same: I know a new Zelda game is in development. And that in itself is still exciting. In the long-run it makes no difference how I found it out. But surprises are fun. Showmanship and razmatazz and the way something is framed and presented and revealed can be entertaining in and of itself.

 

To frame it all as 'it's just a company trying to sell a product to you' is so dour I find it hard to believe it's an enthusiast's perspective. Yes of course they're selling something to you, but it's often about finding out that a new installment in your favourite beloved franchise is coming or that a series you loved and thought was dead is making a comeback. It's often a more emotional reaction than just 'oh a new $60 disc will be available for me to purchase from my corporate overlords in two years' like some of the miseryguts would have you believe.

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