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EUkdazs

What musical hill are you prepared to die on?

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5 hours ago, EUkdazs said:

 

Timeless by Goldie was the best electronic album of the 90s.

 

Mine is probably something along the lines of:

 

"Goldie could have saved Jungle. But didn't".*

 

 

* Plus Marc, plus Dego, plus Rob.

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On 30/09/2018 at 12:49, Fatsam said:

 

clearly dubnobasswithmyheadman was the best electronic album of the 90s 

 

13 hours ago, EUkdazs said:

 

Timeless by Goldie was the best electronic album of the 90s.

 

Both wrong.

 

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On 30/09/2018 at 12:45, nakamura said:

The Chemical Brothers made one good album, Exit Planet Dust, everything else has been mediocre popcorn big beat. 

 

The Prodigy have been shit for over 20 years. 

 

My opinions have kind of swung back and forth with these in the past. With The Prodigy - and I'll get crucified for saying this - I originally thought that Experience had its fair share of repetitive garbage; Fire sounded like a mess, Charly did nothing for me, Everybody In The Place left me nonplussed, etc. Even with Jilted... I think I heard No Good on the radio without knowing it was a Prodigy song and thought it was a bit meh. However, the tracks got better when I came back to them and gave them more of a chance. Or, more likely, my own preferences changed.

 

With CBs - well, I used to be keen to listen to each new release but I kind of drifted away from their style during everything after Come With Us... They do still have a few highlights on newer albums but nothing with quite the same impact. Again, I think it's more a result of my own musical interests changing than CBs getting "worse".

 

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On 01/10/2018 at 07:25, The Hierophant said:

 

 

Wow

 

 

A surprising number of people seem to share this opinion.

 

They are, of course, gibbering imbeciles.

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On 30/09/2018 at 12:45, nakamura said:

The Chemical Brothers made one good album, Exit Planet Dust, everything else has been mediocre popcorn big beat. 

I think Dig Your Own Hole knocks it into a cocked hat, I also think Further is some of their best music and couldn't really be described as 'big beat'. They also have an extremely strong back catalogue of singles, some absolute gems. 

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On ‎17‎/‎09‎/‎2018 at 16:31, Thor said:

That's because Bob Dylan can't fucking sing.

I think this would be a musical hill I'm willing to die on. The idea that Dylan can't sing is one of those popular misconceptions that rarely gets challenged. But in fact Dylan has a very good singing voice, he has a good range, and he's always in key. Obviously he affects a certain style over the top of that, but his actual singing is very tuneful.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Mad Cyril said:

Early proto-punk Kinks are rad. Whimsical, ‘quintessentially English’ Kinks are saccharine and kind of bad.

 

But, Arthur, we like you and want to help you!

 

Don't you know it? :(

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On 02/10/2018 at 20:47, nakamura said:

@Qazimod Experience has certainly dated as much rave style music has but Jilted and Fat are absolutely magnificent albums. 

 

 

I had a listen to Experience the other day (via Spotify while I was immersed in a spreadsheet) and I thought it held up pretty well, all things considered. Maybe it's the nostalgia.

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On 02/10/2018 at 19:47, Fierce Poodle said:

 

A surprising number of people seem to share this opinion.

 

They are, of course, gibbering imbeciles.


I don't mind the Beatles, they're just not my cup of tea personally.

It's reverential Beatles fans that I find a bit annoying.

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3 hours ago, EUkdazs said:

 

I had a listen to Experience the other day (via Spotify while I was immersed in a spreadsheet) and I thought it held up pretty well, all things considered. Maybe it's the nostalgia.

Some parts are good. Some less so. 

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On 18/09/2018 at 22:18, Fatsam said:

Music definitely isn't as good as it used to be and it's nothing to do with me getting old.

 

There hasn't been  a best album of all time contender made in over 20 years. Although 1999's Guerrilla by Super Furry Animals was excellent.

 

On 19/09/2018 at 12:00, Rsdio said:

 

I listen to maybe a couple of hundred new albums a year (more back when I worked in a record shop) and I sort of agree with the first sentiment if it's modified to 'albums aren't as good as they used to be'.

 

There's waaaaay more decent to very good music released now than there's ever been before, beyond what one person can hope to keep up with, so anyone going as far as saying that modern music is shit doesn't really have a leg to stand on (I know you didn't say that yourself). That said, I've always thought the phenomenon of the classic album that will genuinely stand the test of time began the process of drying up sometime around 2003-2004. You can pick pretty much any year before that and you'll be drowning in amazing records in a variety of genres but at this point if you get a couple of those in a year it's been an unusually good one.

 

On 28/09/2018 at 15:49, David Kenny said:

I think pop music is nowhere near as good (personally I think you have to go back a lot more than 20 years to find good pop music). But there's some amazing stuff being created now in jazz, funk, and reggae (and sometimes a mix of all three).

I've been mulling over these kind of comments this week, and seeing as somebody has actually started a 'best albums of the 21st century' thread, I really wanted to ask people to try and put their finger on what exactly defines a 'classic album'. Is it just 10 great songs in a row? Is it about the musical impact it has - pushing new boundaries etc. Is it in any way related to sales or critical reception? Can an album even be considered 'classic' upon release, or does it need a few years to sink in and be fully appreciated? Also, what is pop music these days? Does the term still mean simply 'popular music'? For me, no. I consider anything with a verse/chorus structure and a melodic, reasonably un-challenging style to be pop music. I listen to plenty of music which fits that criteria. Hardly any of it is mainstream Top 40 pop.

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I think the main problem is that the way we consume music has become so splintered. You have spotify, YouTube, bandcamp, soundcloud, blog's, Twitter etc. You don't have a Melody Maker or a John Peel shining a light. We find our own little ghettos and get locked in. Its hard to form any kind of consensus outside the huge mega stars like Kanye or whatever. Also, with the rise of digital media, pop and hip hop have become a lot more singles focused again.

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Man, struggling to think how I can have a go at responding to all that without it just ending up as a massive wall of text!

 

I think what I'd consider a 'classic album' could potentially involve any combination of those things but going back over the years and finding myself blown away anew is probably the deciding factor. Theoretically something could fail on every other count but if it stoof up enough over time it wouldn't matter. It's unlikely that something good wouldn't gain at least some sort of small cult following in the internet era though so it's hard to think of a good recent example. I mention this album quite often but the nearest thing I could maybe think of is the self-titled The For Carnation album from 2000. It sounds fairly unique but I wouldn't say it broke new ground as post-rock was starting to feel a bit old hat at the time and, while the atmosphere is different, musically it's not a million miles from some of the stuff Tortoise had been doing. Reviews were good, but not ecstatic. Didn't really seem to influence anyone. I don't think it sold at all really, even to Slint fans. Never really seen it talked up by anyone else online in the years since.

 

To me that's still a classic because of how good it is, but my subjective feeling is obviously very different to the notion that was mentioned prior to my post (and which I was careful to avoid).. 'Best album of all time contender' implies an almost objective pantheon which I do find a bit weird. I suppose if such a thing does exist then it generally morphs very slowly as new things become established within it over the course of years. I can't really deny that some albums just have that sort of aura about them though, even right from the start. Like OK Computer say, you only needed to hear it once to know it was a big deal and would, in some sense, come to define its particular time and place whether you liked it or not. More recently, To Pimp a Butterfly immediately felt like a big deal. I don't think you can boil the whole thing down to a formula though.

 

I think the fragmentation of the way we consume and produce media now is certainly part of why things feel different these days, as I mentioned before. Broad 'movements' are much less of a thing than they used to be so it's harder to point to a record and say 'this is a defining example of that style' and I think that's always been quite a big part of what gains records those sorts of reputations.

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I tend to judge an album purely on whether I like the individual songs and I'm not arsed about any overall concept or whether it hangs together. The sound of a band who are a bit all over the place and playing around putting different ideas on a record can be a very good thing. And I'm not bothered about how influential or how big a splash they make,  just how good they are. You have to give it a while before you can properly judge them I reckon,  years even. I also see albums as a kind of snapshot of a band or person at a particular point in their career. So yeah, the albums I like most are when my favourite bands are right at their peak of song writing, whenever that may be, and/or when they were doing stuff at that time right up my street.

 

Stanley was interested in the  ones I rate and given that nobody is doing a best albums of all time thread here is a list of some in no particular order. Some are obviously quite frequently high up best of lists people do and one or two aren't. I always consider myself a pop man rather than anything else loving a melody or a repeated hook thing and I like it when people are playing around a bit.
 

Enter the Wu Tang (36 Chambers)  - Wu Tang Clan

This Nations Saving Grace - The Fall

Power Corruption and Lies - New Order

Murmur - REM

Green - REM

Dare! - The Human League

Pauls Boutique - Beastie Boys

Giant Steps - The Boo Radleys

3 Feet High and Rising - De La Soul

Guerrilla - Super Furry Animals.

Low - David Bowie

It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold us Back - Public Enemy

Revolver - The Beatles

The White Album - The Beatles

Slanted and Enchanted - Pavement

Crooked Rain Crooked Rain - Pavement

The Soft Bulletin - The Flaming Lips

Doolittle - Pixies

Madvillainy - Madvillain

Blonde on Blonde - Bob Dylan

 

Feel free to question my selection of something like Giant Steps or my high rating of Green by REM, but I stand strong. In the context of this thread I'm going to claim that The Boo Radleys were the most underappreciated uk band of that decade and no singer and instrument magically fit more perfectly than Michael Stipe and a mandolin. As illustrated here.

 

 

 

 

Also, Bernard Sumner was just as good a frontman as Ian Curtis they were just bit different. No cooler frontman has ever existed.

 

as you can see here

 

 

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Thanks @Fatsam some good choices there. I'll have to try and come up with some great music released since 2000, it's bloody difficult narrowing it down though. This year alone I could list a shitload.

 

P.S. I could never get on with The Boo Radleys, I quite liked their first record where they used a lot of white noise and distortion but after that they just sounded to me like a pale imitation of Love. I think Wake Up Boo has to rank right up there with Chumbawumba's Tubthumping as most annoying song of all time. Also, naming that album after John Contrane's album, which truly was a masterpiece, didn't help matters for me!

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I don't think a lot of them hold up @Fatsam but I'm with you on the REM thing. You are Everything, Wrong Child and Hairshirt in particular give me shivers. Hell, Losing My Religion still sounds class to me.  The mandolin its greatly underused in rock. I love Green but I wouldn't rank it that strongly myself. I rate Fables Of Reconstruction as their best record actually. It's really weird and murky but has a ringing beauty to it.

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16 minutes ago, Mad Cyril said:

Also, yes 36 Chambers is an amazing achievement. Does anybody not like that record?

I love that record. but sadly like so many hip hop albums, it has far too many annoying skits that I can't even bear listening to these days.

 

That's the main reason why, that while hip hop is my favourite genre of music, only Nas's Illmatic and A Tribe Called Quest's Low End Theory, make my top ten albums of all time.

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1 hour ago, Stanley said:

 

P.S. I could never get on with The Boo Radleys, I quite liked their first record where they used a lot of white noise and distortion but after that they just sounded to me like a pale imitation of Love. I think Wake Up Boo has to rank right up there with Chumbawumba's Tubthumping as most annoying song of all time. Also, naming that album after John Contrane's album, which truly was a masterpiece, didn't help matters for me!

 

Their first was good shoegazing with one or two really ace songs on it, but Giant Steps was a monumental step forward for them. Pet Sounds and Hit to Death in the Future Head by the Flaming Lips were apparently the albums that were the influences at the time. You can clearly hear The Flaming Lips one on Giant Steps, but there was always loads of stuff making their way onto their records.

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1 hour ago, Mad Cyril said:

Also, yes 36 Chambers is an amazing achievement. Does anybody not like that record?

My mate lent it to me for my first listen in the last year or so (I’m 36). I wasn’t fussed on it. 

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2 hours ago, Charliemouse said:

I love that record. but sadly like so many hip hop albums, it has far too many annoying skits that I can't even bear listening to these days.

 

That's the main reason why, that while hip hop is my favourite genre of music, only Nas's Illmatic and A Tribe Called Quest's Low End Theory, make my top ten albums of all time.

 

I've always found the skits on Enter The Wu entertaining! But yeah, skits are a scrooge on rap LPs, especially the 90s stuff.

 

Length is my major bugbear though, in rap and in general. 40-45 minutes is the sweet spot for me. Bish bash boom, no fucking about. Anything beyond 55 minutes and I struggle to keep my attention tbh. That's one thing nobody brings up about Nation Of Millions To Hold Us Back. Legendary album of course, but thing's got a lot of filler! 

 

I love a good double album though <_<. Maybe it's because I don't feel compelled to listen to them in one sitting.

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2 hours ago, Charliemouse said:

I love that record. but sadly like so many hip hop albums, it has far too many annoying skits that I can't even bear listening to these days.

 

God yes. Skits are the bane of hip hop.

 

59 minutes ago, acidbearboy said:

My mate lent it to me for my first listen in the last year or so (I’m 36). I wasn’t fussed on it. 

 

It changed everything and was massively influential so you might not be aware of just how different it was at the time.

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Here's some albums I really like. Masterpieces, best of all time? I dunno. Music I like changes with my moods and the seasons. These just come to mind at the moment.

 

Ravedeath, 1972 - Tim Hecker

Restless Idylls - Tropic of Cancer

Preserve The Sanctity of Sound - Nuances

Double Negative - Low

Neptune's Lair - Drexciya

Black Origami - Jlin

Shatterproof - Henning Baer

Mutant - Arca

25 25 - Factory Floor

Nefertiti - Miles Davis

If You're Into It I'm Out Of It - Christophe De Babalon

 

 

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8 hours ago, Fatsam said:

Also, Bernard Sumner was just as good a frontman as Ian Curtis they were just bit different. No cooler frontman has ever existed.

NO > JD. 

 

Joy Division would barely be remembered without New Order, and both JD albums only really have Martin Hannett’s icy production going for them.

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