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GAF Meltdown - owner accused

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I’m a bit confused for being called up on that there @grindmouse.  I responded to a very recent post calling out your definition of sexual assault.  You maybe didn’t portray yourself properly, that’s fine, but expect someone to question if so.  However you again imply that a sexual assault isn’t as serious as a violent assault and as @Shimmyhill says it may very well be worse sometimes.  And you write this just after claiming I misrepresented your position.  It’s very confusing.  Maybe this is what you believe, but I would like to give you the benefit of the doubt here and suggest that maybe your word choices haven’t been amazing.  

 

You need to be really careful with topics like this as you will easily offend people by inadvertently downplaying their very real, very serious, experiences.  That’s why I called you on it - I’ve alluded to my own in other threads but I’m not going to get into it now.  Just have a think about why I, of all posters, may have felt very sensitive about what you had said.

 

You even go so far as to suggest I may turn into some crazy stalker lady because of a discussion we have had.  I’m sorry if you felt singled out by my replies but I felt very strongly personally about what you had said and THAT is why I replied to you, no more and no less.

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Just now, grindmouse said:

 

Hi Stan, in case you're unaware: I have no idea who you are or what you would do - I didnt accuse you of using my history against me on the forum, I was just using you as an example of someone I chatted to in this thread. You may not be aware but the forum and a poster are now embroiled in a legal matter we can't talk about because the thing I described above has happened. 

Yeah well don't use me as example. Stand up for yourself and stop playing the victim.

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16 minutes ago, grindmouse said:

 

So binding value statements then. People who used internet forums in the early 00's have fucked themselves for life. I'm sure you feel the same way about young people who naively post or sell naked photos of themselves online. They should own it for the rest of their lives!

 

While the quote button exists deleting history only goes so far. There's no reason to keep most threads from the mid-00's on here. Maybe archive big event threads like E3 and Wii release for posterity, but particularly OT threada or controversial threads - that shit should be erased permanently after a time. People shouldn't be held to values inferred from joke posts made, what will eventually be 20? 30? years ago. It's like a Black Mirror episode come true.

 

Anyways this probably should be it's own topic in A&F.

 

The law has changed because of young people posting naked photos to reflect the issue in hand, there are specific offences for youths posting and distributing images that will not likely end in prosecution as it would if an adult used the same images.

 

We have on here at least two posters admitting raping their partners, I wasn’t aware of either tbh as don’t read that #bants area of OT but if someone thought the action was fine and worthy of a post on the internet frankly I don’t care how old they were it’s never defensible so why should it be lost in time?

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Just now, sprite said:

I’m a bit confused for being called up on that there @grindmouse.  I responded to a very recent post calling out your definition of sexual assault.  You maybe didn’t portray yourself properly, that’s fine, but expect someone to question if so.  However you again imply that a sexual assault isn’t as serious as a violent assault and as @Shimmyhill says it may very well be worse sometimes.  And you write this just after claiming I misrepresented your position.  It’s very confusing.  Maybe this is what you believe, but I would like to give you the benefit of the doubt here and suggest that maybe your word choices haven’t been amazing.  

 

You need to be really careful with topics like this as you will easily offend people by inadvertently downplaying their very real, very serious, experiences.  That’s why I called you on it - I’ve alluded to my own in other threads but I’m not going to get into it now.  Just have a think about why I, of all posters, may have felt very sensitive about what you had said.

 

 

I'm staggered you think this was in any way implied by comments. Sexual assault and violent assault are both very serious.

The allegation that was made is not as severe, in degrees of sexual assault as rape, which is what SMD called it - and I was only replying him to correct him on this AFAIK the allegation was not of rape. People jumped on that post to suggest I was saying sexual assault isn't serious. Which I have never said and do not hold that opinion at all.

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4 minutes ago, Shimmyhill said:

We have on here at least one poster claiming sexual assault isn't serious, if someone thought the action was fine and worthy of a post on the internet frankly I don’t care how old they were it’s never defensible so why should it be lost in time?

 

dys?

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Perhaps stop using words such as serious or severe. Is it not possible that the lasting psychological effects caused by this incident are both, regardless of how you try and 'grade' them? 

 

It's not just what happened it's the fear of what could've happened.

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2 minutes ago, grindmouse said:

 

dys?

 

No, not comparable - what you said was poorly phrased but your entire stance has a bias from the out and you almost got the clarification right but then started arguing your own point. In your case admit you were wrong if only in bad wording and you lack the knowledge of the complexities of the law or, more importantly, how victims feel, in such cases and you’re golden.

 

I have you as stubborn with some outdated views and pre dispositions but not as a sex offender or defender thereof, you are part of the debate not the reason for it IMO.

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1 hour ago, grindmouse said:

I made a post earlier in the thread and used the word ’serious’ in a relative context, in response to another poster, because the allegation is of less severity than violent physical assault, in a legal and more general sense.

 

11 minutes ago, grindmouse said:

 

I'm staggered you think this was in any way implied by comments. Sexual assault and violent assault are both very serious.

The allegation that was made is not as severe, in degrees of sexual assault as rape, which is what SMD called it - and I was only replying him to correct him on this AFAIK the allegation was not of rape. People jumped on that post to suggest I was saying sexual assault isn't serious. Which I have never said and do not hold that opinion at all.

 

It was the bit highlighted above that I think both @Shimmyhill and I read the same way.

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1 minute ago, Stanley said:

Perhaps stop using words such as serious or severe. Is it not possible that the lasting psychological effects caused by this incident are both, regardless of how you try and 'grade' them? 

 

It's not just what happened it's the fear of what could've happened.

 

Stanley, if this were to go to court and he was found guilty, the sentence received would be more severe for one act than the other. 

 

Can we talk about the lasting psychological impact of engaging with rllmuk on this topic?

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Just now, grindmouse said:

 

Stanley, if this were to go to court and he was found guilty, the sentence received would be more severe for one act than the other. 

 

Can we talk about the lasting psychological impact of engaging with rllmuk on this topic?

We're not in court are we? Stop hiding behind the law.

 

We can talk about whatever you want. But perhaps take it to a PM with me if you're serious?

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22 minutes ago, grindmouse said:

 

Stanley, if this were to go to court and he was found guilty, the sentence received would be more severe for one act than the other. 

 

Can we talk about the lasting psychological impact of engaging with rllmuk on this topic?

 

You may wish to check the various tarrif, this is the issue - you have decided one is more serous than the other when society and the law do not.

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@grindmouse the original point about ‘serious’ came from that post where the phrase was something like ‘it wasn’t a serious sexual assault’. The reason it was pulled up was because to a lot of people, all sexual assault is serious and so it stood out as being dismissive. I think it was easy to do that due to the preceding posts. If that wasn’t the intention, it could be avoided somewhat by articulating the point better and not leaving it open to interpretation.

 

With regards to users and forum history, you or someone said you used to be xxxxx and this is sometimes brought up to have a go at you? I’ve usually got a good memory for the history on here but can’t recall why your previous account left, I think a lot of stuff might have been deleted about it? Actually, I think this highlights another issue as when content is removed, people fill in the blanks themselves or don’t remember exactly what was written and so a distorted version can end up being taken as gospel. I think there’s a fine balance between accountability and letting go of the past and moving on but it depends on the content I suppose.

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On 24/10/2017 at 09:13, grindmouse said:

Neither of these accusations (bum-pinching in a club - seriously - or peforming a 'naked man - see Friends/HIMYM) are remotely on a Weinstein-level. The vitriol being directed towards NeoGAF is entirely playing into and no doubt partly orchestrated by the alt-right. Divide and conquer. 

 

Also can a mod please move this non-Gaming-related thread to OT?

 

This how Grindmouse described his view of the accusations. This is from this very thread a couple of days ago, which is hardly dredging through somebody's post history from the dim and distant past. He's right in that it's not on Weinstein's level. Weinstein has been accused of full blown rape for starters. But it certainly comes across as downplaying the allegations. 'Bum pinching' can be considered sexual assault by touching under UK law if the person on the receiving end reports the matter. Comparing the shower incident to a presumably jolly jape from a sitcom - doing a 'naked man' whatever the hell that means. I haven’t watched that much How I Met Your Mother, but I assume the reference to Friends means the episode where Chandler accidentally sees Rachel naked after a shower, which isn’t even remotey comparable to the accusation in question, before you even get into the territory that sitcoms aren’t some kind of lifestyle games to acceptable real life behaviour. People can hardly be blamed for perceiving it as the poster not considering the matter to be particularly serious, even if the allegations are 100% true.

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4 minutes ago, Harsin said:

 

, but I assume the reference to Friends means the episode where Chandler accidentally sees Rachel naked after a shower. Which isn’t even remotey comparable to the accusation in question, 

 

Still not comparable, but actually it was Joey who strips naked when he first meets Monica. Pop culture touchstones which might explain the sort of mindset that might lead a guy to make this mistake, rather than pantomime villification. Which obv means I'm downplaying it.

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21 minutes ago, Shimmyhill said:

 

You may wish to check the various tarrif, this is the issue - you have decided one is more serous than the other when society and the law do not.

 

If you think the sentences would be the same then we have our wires crossed and are talking about different offences. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, grindmouse said:

 

So binding value statements then. People who used internet forums in the early 00's have fucked themselves for life. I'm sure you feel the same way about young people who naively post or sell naked photos of themselves online. They should own it for the rest of their lives!

 

While the quote button exists deleting history only goes so far. There's no reason to keep most threads from the mid-00's on here. Maybe archive big event threads like E3 and Wii release for posterity, but particularly OT threada or controversial threads - that shit should be erased permanently after a time. People shouldn't be held to values inferred from joke posts made, what will eventually be 20? 30? years ago. It's like a Black Mirror episode come true.

 

Anyways this probably should be it's own topic in A&F.

 

It should be. I'd be up for discussing this in it's own thread as you raise some valid points there.

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5 minutes ago, Unofficial Who said:

 

It should be. I'd be up for discussing this in it's own thread as you raise some valid points there.

 

...that itself will be exhumed 12 years from now. ;)

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2 hours ago, grindmouse said:

 

Still not comparable, but actually it was Joey who strips naked when he first meets Monica. Pop culture touchstones which might explain the sort of mindset that might lead a guy to make this mistake, rather than pantomime villification. Which obv means I'm downplaying it.

 

And here I think you raise an interesting point. It all comes down to beliefs and motives and that all comes down to past experience and intentions.

 

We know for a fact a few things.

 

Said woman feeling sick went to have a shower to freshen up after feeling ill.

Said man follows sometime later naked.

 

Now most of us here think that it's at the very least creepy. Some think that's being a bit judgemental.

 

And you're right, it's not a full blown rape. But it could be seen as some sort of sexual assualt depending on local laws and the past experience of the person being walked in on. I'm somewhat intrigued that some people would be ok with anyone other than an intimate partner walking in on them. From my past experiences I'd be instantly worried that I was about to be assaulted unless said friend was making a beeline for the toilet, eye closed and apologising for their sudden stomach issues. In much the same way as I'd be worried if even a close friend suddenly and out of character started swinging their fists just shy of my nose. Sure, they're not technically hitting me but I'd definately be worried and if it just stopped there I would be re-evaluating our friendship.

 

However....this guy as you said might be more steeped in pop culture than I.

 

And let's have a look at role models.

 

-Joey strips naked when first meeting Monica. Seen as fine.

 

-Bond having surprise sex with a woman in a shower just after she discloses she used to be a sex slave having been abused since childhood. Totes ok.

 

-Director and actor change the details of a sex scene in a movie without disclosing it to the actress taking part in order to make her outrage, shame and violation look more genuine. Gets lauded as one of the great classics of cinema.

 

-Millionaire brags about touching women up because he feels like he just can. Gets made president of the United States.

 

We could go on and on but I think I get the point you were trying to make that we were all missing. In an environment where rape culture is pretty much rife you can totally imagine this guy being confused he's being taken to task over what must seem a minor transgression compared to what we see in our entertainment and on the news.

 

That's the point being made, right?

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@grindmouse I'd suggest disengaging as some of these posters just don't want to discuss but just shout down anyone who disagrees!

 

I've just got back from a 24hr ban for a post from a fee days ago despite saying I'm leaving the thread as I don't want to get banned.

 

Clearly loads crying to the mods because they can't take dissention! 

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3 minutes ago, probotector said:

@grindmouse I'd suggest disengaging as some of these posters just don't want to discuss but just shout down anyone who disagrees!

Rubbish. Who in here this morning isn't discussing the issues raised?

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16 minutes ago, probotector said:

@grindmouse I'd suggest disengaging as some of these posters just don't want to discuss but just shout down anyone who disagrees!

 

I've just got back from a 24hr ban for a post from a fee days ago despite saying I'm leaving the thread as I don't want to get banned.

 

Clearly loads crying to the mods because they can't take dissention! 

Banned for trolling, and you've come back trolling. Nice going.

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47 minutes ago, Unofficial Who said:

-Bond having surprise sex with a woman in a shower just after she discloses she used to be a sex xlave having been abused since childhood. Totes ok.

 

I know Bond is generally not exactly a good role model for the modern man, but which which film in particular is that :o

 

 

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