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Star Wars: The Last Jedi - December 2017

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I'm sure this won't  win over any of the people convinced this is a shit movie for reasons that somehow now include that it has a worse story than the prequels but here's another good video essay from generally a pretty good channel all round.

 

He does also make the valid point  I took a dig at there that you can still dislike a film but recognise that it does some bits well.

 

 

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On 02/06/2018 at 11:44, Paulando said:

 

This video perfectly articulates how I feel about The Last Jedi. The Kylo Ren arc, including Luke/Rey, is absolutely some of my favourite Star Wars stuff ever, and a cut above your usually blockbuster fare. I can see myself coming back to TLJ more than the others for this alone.

 

This makes the Finn arc all the more disappointing, which he also highlights in this video. Very odd they cut the scene about him not wanting to join the resistance, as that would have given a little more weight to his storyline.

 

This is a great video with an interesting take on it — effectively trying to show two character arcs that are at odds with one another. 

Thing is though, that I can not agree that Finn’s arc isn’t satisfying or convincingly portrayed. 

The point about the cut scene where Finn expresses his dissolutionment with it all shouldn’t of been cut, I disagree with. The first scene with Rose sets all of this obviously up and that’s why the scene was cut. It doesn’t need further explanation. 

Also, the beats of Finn going to Canto Bight and loving it, then shown DJ’s involvement and ambiguity in regards to the conflict to DJ’s betrayal are all obviously pushing Finn to make up his mind to be part of the Resistance. I thought it was all excellently handled. 

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11 hours ago, b00dles said:

I'm sure this won't  win over any of the people convinced this is a shit movie for reasons that somehow now include that it has a worse story than the prequels but here's another good video essay from generally a pretty good channel all round.

 

He does also make the valid point  I took a dig at there that you can still dislike a film but recognise that it does some bits well.

 

 

And from the other side, with regards to the oddly placed comedy. Nothing wrong with a bit of comedic levity but I agree with this guy, and it helps he doesn't come across as a ranting idiot (besides the click bait thumbnail). He shows how it was in places where it didn't fit and spoiled the scene.

 

 

Seems a pretty level headed appraisal. 

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2 hours ago, Paulando said:

 

 

 

I don’t think Snoke was wasted at all, and we certainly didn’t need to know where he came from.

 

Dont worry, I'm sure that's Star Wars story to tell in a few years.

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On 30/05/2018 at 09:50, Treble said:

Johnson was so disgusted by the cul de sac that was TFA that he set himself a task to undo as much as he possibly could. Like @Dirty Harry Potter says, that's a staggering lack of planning. Letting Rian do whatever he wants, whilst simultaneously hamstringing (then firing) the likes of Lord and Miller suggests rudderlessness.

 

Would anyone really mind if the pace of release slowed down, if the quality improved? I'd happily wait three years or longer if it meant getting a Ragnarok or Infinity War equivalent at the end of it. The approach where Disney just pump these things out is short termism in the extreme.

 

Whilst I totally agree, Marvel are stepping the pace up if anything, and pretty much all of them at this point are at worst good movies. We’re getting three movies a year out of them at the moment, with no talk of Marvel fatigue. I guess that feeds into what you and @Dirty Harry Potter say; with proper planning of an overall endpoint, the Marvel films all just slot in. I do find it difficult to believe that Lucasfilm started a trilogy without that sort of planning, and even accounting for JJ perhaps unexpectedly bailing on directing the middle film, Kennedy (and I think JJ himself) got Rian Johnson in early and approved his ideas. 

 

Whilst I liked TLJ, and in a way admire Johnson for staying true to his ideas, I’m quite happy to put my fanboy hat on and see it from the other side of the argument and say Johnson perhaps could have thrown a bone to the fans and followed perhaps one of the trails JJ had signposted, and that dismissing all of them was deliberately obtuse to force the overall theme that in the grand scheme of things you need to look forward, and none of those trails matter.

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The impression I got from Last Jedi was that Johnsson hammered two films worth of story arcs in to one movie to try and finish his take on the new trilogy leaving. Rey tricking Snoke would have worked better if you'd seen more of Snoke's hubris and arrogance over two movies to sell his delusion and over confidence. The slow space chase between the rebellion and the persuing first order would have made a killer Empire style cliff hanger and opening to a third movie. Finn and Rose's romance would have been more believable with time to grow over two movies, and Rose saving Finn by crashing their speeders would've had a bigger impact. Benicio Del Toros character would have made an excellent foil for the heroes spread over two movies. That's just off the top of my head.

 

Of course it's easy for me to sit on my arse playing back seat screenwriter, director and editor and rearrange the pieces that some one else came up with after the fact, without studio interference, without any of the pressure...

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2 hours ago, Jammy said:

Whilst I totally agree, Marvel are stepping the pace up if anything, and pretty much all of them at this point are at worst good movies. We’re getting three movies a year out of them at the moment, with no talk of Marvel fatigue. 

 

I'd say some of them are pretty dull TBH.  Some are great, but they're not consistently good and I do think there are far too many to keep track of.  I don't have that problem with Star Wars - I've really enjoyed all the new ones. 

 

I obviously can't speak for others, but I hope some of the fatigue they are starting to feel with Star Wars fades when Lucasfilm moves away from the current 'Skywalker' time period, and explore a completely new saga with new heroes/villains/creatures/planets etc.

 

There's so much potential and I hope that the different projects confirmed by different film makers can unlock some of that potential. 

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25 minutes ago, matt0 said:

The impression I got from Last Jedi was that Johnsson hammered two films worth of story arcs in to one movie to try and finish his take on the new trilogy leaving. Rey tricking Snoke would have worked better if you'd seen more of Snoke's hubris and arrogance over two movies to sell his delusion and over confidence. The slow space chase between the rebellion and the persuing first order would have made a killer Empire style cliff hanger and opening to a third movie. Finn and Rose's romance would have been more believable with time to grow over two movies, and Rose saving Finn by crashing their speeders would've had a bigger impact. Benicio Del Toros character would have made an excellent foil for the heroes spread over two movies. That's just off the top of my head.

 

Of course it's easy for me to sit on my arse playing back seat screenwriter, director and editor and rearrange the pieces that some one else came up with after the fact, without studio interference, without any of the pressure...

 

This could have worked if both films were filmed back to back and released within 6 months of each other, like BTTF2 and The Matrix Reloaded, but wholly unnecessary. TLJ gave it all a satisfying close while still leaving a lot for a third act follow up.

 

It leaves one, simple question at the end:  ’How on Earth will they rebuild the rebellion and take down the first order?’, which is far more interesting than any of the rabbit hole questions JJ set up in The Force Awakens. They were great for Reddit discussions but not much else.

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Horses for courses, I guess. I personally couldn't care less what happens in Episode 9 - as the message I got from TLJ is don't bother investing in this universe.

 

I think the whole SW universe is massively limited actually. And whilst a few nerds will have wet dreams over some Tales Of The Jedi style films - no one else will care.

 

The audience have literally seen and done it all in Star Wars. Its all diminishing returns from this point on.

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16 hours ago, amc said:

And from the other side, with regards to the oddly placed comedy. Nothing wrong with a bit of comedic levity but I agree with this guy, and it helps he doesn't come across as a ranting idiot (besides the click bait thumbnail). He shows how it was in places where it didn't fit and spoiled the scene.

 

 

Seems a pretty level headed appraisal. 

This guy is spot on. 

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Is Finn supposed to be in love with Rose now, even though he hugged Rey when they met a the end of the film. I though the whole point of going off to casino world was to save Rey from something, I wasn't quite sure. But reasons. 

Is this going to be some weird threesome thing with Ren looking on wanting to make a move but unable to renounce the evil side and sweep Rey off her feet. As Rose and Rey make doe eyes at Finn who secretly wants to make out with bad boy Poe.

 

I just don't know what to think anymore.

 

Solo was better, at least that didn't try to subvert my expectations !!

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57 minutes ago, Chewylegs said:

This guy is spot on. 

I don't know, Infinity War doesn't suffer from having light and dark tones within a single scene, nor do countless other films.

 

And the humour didn't seem too out of place either. I know in high stress situations, I tend to tell more jokes as a way of dealing with it.

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I dunno, Admiral Nazi-Teenager killed BILLIONS of people in the last movie and he's the butt of a load of crap jokes in this one. It's a bit weird.

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That's part of what makes TLJ so interesting to me compared to most modern blockbusters. It resists the temptation to have good guys who are motivated purely because they are "good people", and villians who are just "baddies". They all have their personal motivations for their actions. Hux can kill billions because he's a 'rabid cur', not some evil genius, and as such it's only right he's shown as an unstable character.

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3 hours ago, MechE said:

I don't know, Infinity War doesn't suffer from having light and dark tones within a single scene, nor do countless other films.

 

And the humour didn't seem too out of place either. I know in high stress situations, I tend to tell more jokes as a way of dealing with it.

Yeah but it's how it's done. In Last Jedi it's very very jarring, like you shot there and just go.. Wtf was that. Infinity Wars doesn't have anything as bad as this I'm afraid. 

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3 hours ago, Naieve said:

I dunno, Admiral Nazi-Teenager killed BILLIONS of people in the last movie and he's the butt of a load of crap jokes in this one. It's a bit weird.

 

Mate, wait till I tell you about all the jokes about actual Nazis

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I think the problem with The Last Jedi’s comedy is that it just isn’t funny. It’s more cringe inducing than something you’d laugh at. That combined with how badly placed a lot of it is, as shown in that video, and it really doesn’t work.

 

Personally I also think a lot of it doesn’t feel like it fits in the Star Wars universe either, in that they’re using language we’ve never had before. For example, the whole painfully unfunny joke of Poe being on hold to Hux felt far too human to me and it set the tone for the rest of the badly handled comedy to come.

 

Not everything in the Marvel films hits for me though, but they definitely handle comedy far better. It fits in with the tone of the films and it feels as though it belongs in that universe.

 

I don’t even want to think about the iron/spaceship gag. It was like something out of Naked Gun.

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The Huxx/Poe stuff was fine, as he’s just taking the piss/buying time. That’s what I’d expect him to do. The porgs and the other creatures on Luke’s island were great, as was Yoda.

 

The ‘reach out’ bit with the grass was the worst for me. Rey’s reaction was like something from a Paul Feig film.

 

It’s such a small part of the film though. The people who seem to be upset with it are the ones who dislike the film anyway. To say it ‘killed’ the film is ridiculous.

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3 minutes ago, Paulando said:

The Huxx/Poe stuff was fine, as he’s just taking the piss/buying time. That’s what I’d expect him to do. The porgs and the other creatures on Luke’s island were great, as was Yoda.

 

The ‘reach out’ bit with the grass was the worst for me. Rey’s reaction was like something from a Paul Feig film.

 

It’s such a small part of the film though. The people who seem to be upset with it are the ones who dislike the film anyway. To say it ‘killed’ the film is ridiculous.

It just wasn't funny though and it really didn't feel like it belonged in a Star Wars film. Thinking about it, I suppose you can compare it to the Leia escape sequence from Episode IV, where Han is on the comms trying to gain them a bit of time. The difference though is that Han's speech worked, because it felt like it belonged in Star Wars. He was talking about weapon malfunctions, which was completely right in the context of the situation. Poe's attempt though felt far too human and wasn't right in the context of the film.

 

I don't think anyone is saying that is the only reason it's a poor film though, are they? It's just another bad point amongst a whole load of other bad points, which add up to make the film a mess.

 

I really need to let it go though! I'm not happy with new Star Wars, but it's out there now and all I can do is hope they make some better ones in the future.

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5 minutes ago, JPL said:

I don't think anyone is saying that is the only reason it's a poor film though, are they? It's just another bad point amongst a whole load of other bad points, which add up to make the film a mess.

 

 

The video linked was titled ‘How comedy KILLED The Last Jedi’.

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3 minutes ago, Paulando said:

 

The video linked was titled ‘How comedy KILLED The Last Jedi’.

Hyperbolic click bait title innit, although it doesn't state it's the ONLY thing that killed it.

 

It's definitely one of the many things that ruined it for me, so I can see where he's coming from.

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@JPL That “Situation normal” speech was a Ford ad-lib - he didn’t learn the actual lines deliberately so that he had to make stuff up on the spot and make it sound really awkward. 

 

I’m with you on the language they used - “I believe he’s tooling with you sir” is one of the first lines and I found it incredibly jarring.

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See, I liked that too. What I wasn't keen on was the line the followed from Poe, " ... about his mother". Now that was jarring for me.

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