Jump to content
rllmuk
Sign in to follow this  
Orko

Star Wars: The Force Awakens

Recommended Posts

As someone who has only recently (last couple of days) seen both the original trilogy and the prequels so little if any nostalgia to the franchise (I had only seen the first prequel in the past so it was all new to me), I really enjoyed TFA. If I were to look objectively at all the films it would be second only to V (if at all). I think for those of you who are massive star wars fans, once you look back on it in a few years time you will really appreciate how good a film it is.

Utterly uttetly this.

On second viewing the more jarring edges were more smoothed off. It works really well as a Star Wars movie. I think I personally prefer Kylo over Vader, because he's a fanatic "fan" of vader and his views seem even more distorted and weird. Also, his conflict is much more visible, because we can see his face / performace.

To add to Nomad's post, I feel that there are big flaws in the original movies that we don't seem to be discussing and yet we seem to be picking holes in the new film over are very small points. The film works at an emotional level and really captures the feel of star wars. What else is important?

  • Upvote 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The sense of presence Driver brings to Kylo Ren is incredible. For me he was the best of the new cast. So many great lines and moments from him and absolutely buzzing to see it all again and enjoy it even more!

The unmasking of Kylo relatively early on was genius. Its no surprise to see Adam Driver's big, crazy face when the helmet comes off but I feel it adds a real sense of purpose and intrigue to the character as its just a young man in a suit of armour essentially. Having that human connection through his face rather than the mask adds so much weight to his scene with Han and the subsequent battle with Finn and Rey. Everything about Drivers performance from the way he marched about to the subtle tormet he shows in his face and voice was polished beautifully.

Its also set things up wonderfully for Episode VIII because we have never really had this type of dark side character before. Sure we had Anakin hamming up that role for the final 20 minutes of ROTS before he gets set on fire but with Driver we have a full story with the character in that role. The dark side torment in all its glory played out through an extremely talented actor. For me that is going to make this story quite special!

  • Upvote 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I didn't think the mask was that great either. It's not bad, but it could have been better. In person you didn't really notice though because in full costume with boots and helmet and stuff Adam Driver is easily 6'5" and intimidating as fuck.

But it was supposed to be rubbish, because Kylo Ren is basically a fan boy and it is built out of adulation and vanity and not out or necessity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, unlike Vader, he has no need for the mask anyway. I think he'd become more iconic if they drop it altogether for the sequels rather than persist with the Poundland Vader image.

And he's got a cool scar to show off now too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But it was supposed to be rubbish, because Kylo Ren is basically a fan boy and it is built out of adulation and vanity and not out or necessity.

Han basically tells him this in slightly different words when he says Snoke is using him. Unfortunately, he is so twisted by this point that he cant see the truth. I expect we will see a slightly different look to Kylo in Episode VIII following the injuries he sustained as he looked to have a pretty hefty gash on his face before the planet exploded.

Personally, I wouldn't mind having the mask back as I have loved it from the moment they first showed it. It closely resembles Darth Revan's from Knights of the Old Republic and as far as stories go never mind videogames that is one of the greatest of all time!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let's look at the first numbers.

It made $57M from Thursday night previews. According to Mendelson, that alone would put it in the top 15 WEEKEND openings of 2015. Furthermore, that figure , which only accounts for Thursday evening, would be the 24th biggest opening day of all time, where it a full day number.

While we may be looking at the most front-loaded movie of all time, I'd be surprised if it doesn't clear $220M by Sunday.

Whilst things may change over the next two days I will say that the UK performance is nowhere near US numbers. Without revealing anything I shouldn't it would astonish me if this tracks anything near Spectre. It is miles behind as of tonight. (Unless it's only northerners who are watching it since I can't track that).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I dont think its necessarily small points the film falls down in comparison to the originals.

Compare the Sun Killer to the original Death Star. The Empire demonstrated the power of the weapon by blowing up Alderaan. There were not cuts to people on the planet; we care because we care about Leia. The next cut is to Obi Wan, someone else we care about. The whole scene from Tarkin calling Leia in reinforces how evil the Empire is and how strong it is, even beyond having basically a superhuman in Vader. The way Tarkin does it is fairly casual - "Your far too trusting" and that is chilling. That also pays off later when the Death Star heads toward the rebel base. The Empire has both capability and intent, people we care about are at serious risk.

Compare TFA. We get a rant from Hux and some Nazi imagery, then it shows a cut yo some planets blowing up. I'm still not sure if it is Coruscant or not. Coruscant is not mentioned in this film anyway. No one we care about is there. It's invoking Star Wars to try and engender some of the same feelings.

That plays later too. Ace Rimmer says something like "Right. Knock the shields out, hit the weak spot, destroy the big gun". It's routine. The original sequence was spectacular. There is little tension, we know how this will play out. The people we care about are mostly on the Sun Killer rather than in the rebel base. They've still a shot even the weapon fires.

You can do similar things with the Death Star sequence in ROTJ. It *is* a clever riff. The fact that it is a trap demonstrates the brilliance of the Emperor. Weaknesses being there makes sense since it is needed as bait. It works as part of the overall story and structure rather than being needed to shuffle people around.

I don't want to be too down on TFA. Its one of the better blockbusters of recent years. And I'm keen to see it again for a second assessment - especially the first act. It's at least as good as any Marvel movie. But you are comparing it to some of the best films in the genre of all time, and ones that hold up in overall best picture lists. I just don't think this hits anywhere near that standard.

  • Upvote 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Watched it last night at the Printworks IMAX in Manchester and I fucking loved it.

Yes that is indeed correct. Please never defend the prequels to me again. Cos now I got MY Star Wars back

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ha! Totally called that a few pages back. Watched it again today and it's actually kind of obvious

he not only sounds like Craig but you can see it's him in his walk when he's nonchalantly walking away and dropping the blaster; it's the relaxed/pissed off 007 walk he does

.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Come on, Rev, hurry up with that long post so we can go back to discussing plot points and outrageous/awesome/daft conclusions. :)

Hello! A long post follows.

Utter, utter conjecture but I quite like it and I can't see any real holes in it.

Right, I've been thinking about it and the only piece of evidence I need is that the ship that Rey saw leave was the ship Han was on later. I think it might have been.

At some point, Finn says something along the lines of "Jakku? Why does everyone keep wanting to go back to Jakku?"

And it's all about Jakku.

From a mild dip into EU, Jakku was the home of a big battle not long after Endor, due to it having a weapons factory there or similar. We don't know when TFA is, but it's about 30ish years after RoTJ. I think That Dude decided to retire from War to Jakku at that point and not long after that, Leia had Ben. He was found to be force sensitive and at around 5 was sent to train with Luke.

At some point later, probably about 8 years, Luke fell in love (with a fellow teacher or a student, one would assume...If so, that would be a powerful kid...) and either because he knew about Anakin being turned due to being in love and denying it, or just out of arrogance followed through with it. His partner gave birth and Luke was distracted him from his duties. This was when Ben started his walk towards the dark side. Ben, probably, killed everyone including Luke's partner and Han (and Chewie) ran and left Leia to deal with it. As a last favour after everything was destroyed, they agreed to take Rey to That Dude On Jakku for her safety. Whilst delivering her, the Millennium Falcon was stolen so they stole/got a ride on the ship they left on. They told Rey they'd be back, but instead Luke decided he had to vanish. He went and checked on her, giving the map piece to That Dude, R2 to Leia and then leaving forever.

The doll was knitted by Rey's mother, possibly as the only link to Luke even at the time. The helmet is just from a battle that she collected when she noticed it was like her toy and didn't sell it like she didn't sell BB8.

The bit in bold is kinda what holds it all together.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello! A long post follows.

Utter, utter conjecture but I quite like it and I can't see any real holes in it.

Right, I've been thinking about it and the only piece of evidence I need is that the ship that Rey saw leave was the ship Han was on later. I think it might have been.

At some point, Finn says something along the lines of "Jakku? Why does everyone keep wanting to go back to Jakku?"

And it's all about Jakku.

From a mild dip into EU, Jakku was the home of a big battle not long after Endor, due to it having a weapons factory there or similar. We don't know when TFA is, but it's about 30ish years after RoTJ. I think That Dude decided to retire from War to Jakku at that point and not long after that, Leia had Ben. He was found to be force sensitive and at around 5 was sent to train with Luke.

At some point later, probably about 8 years, Luke fell in love (with a fellow teacher or a student, one would assume...If so, that would be a powerful kid...) and either because he knew about Anakin being turned due to being in love and denying it, or just out of arrogance followed through with it. His partner gave birth and Luke was distracted him from his duties. This was when Ben started his walk towards the dark side. Ben, probably, killed everyone including Luke's partner and Han (and Chewie) ran and left Leia to deal with it. As a last favour after everything was destroyed, they agreed to take Rey to That Dude On Jakku for her safety. Whilst delivering her, the Millennium Falcon was stolen so they stole/got a ride on the ship they left on. They told Rey they'd be back, but instead Luke decided he had to vanish. He went and checked on her, giving the map piece to That Dude, R2 to Leia and then leaving forever.

The doll was knitted by Rey's mother, possibly as the only link to Luke even at the time. The helmet is just from a battle that she collected when she noticed it was like her toy and didn't sell it like she didn't sell BB8.

The bit in bold is kinda what holds it all together.

Has it been ruled out:

that Rey might be Leia and Han's daughter? It would certainly be rather hammy if it were, but the rather touching hug at the end between her and Leia possibly hinted at it?

I'm hoping I'm wrong...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Am I the only one, then, who felt Kylo Ren was fucking brilliant and menacing?

Was one of the best things about the film.

Cannot wait to see more of him. I'm a big Driver fan anyway, but he absolutely knocks it out of the park.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Has it been ruled out:

that Rey might be Leia and Han's daughter? It would certainly be rather hammy if it were, but the rather touching hug at the end between her and Leia possibly hinted at it?

I'm hoping I'm wrong...

That was my original theory. If Kylo Ren is significantly younger than Adam Driver, I think it's still on. If they're broadly playing their character ages I think it all gets a bit cramped and I think the "WHY JAKKU" question comes back. Why is the location of Luke kept near Leia's child? That seems to put them both in danger, whereas Luke wanting an emergency method of getting his daughter to him seems quite reasonable.

Not as long as I was expecting, Rev. But I like that. Also, that's an excuse to see it a third time (ppffttttt, as if I need one!)

I was eating chips whilst I typed, so it didn't end up as floral as I expected. I need to watch it again too though, I'll either be able to expand it or says it's bollocks when I'm actually watching the story rather than going "PEWPEWPEW Woooooosh Derwent Water!"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After a third viewing I'm tempted to say...

ROTJ

TFA

TESB

ANH

TPM

ROTS

AOTC

I've commented a lot in this thread and am not yet ready to deep dive into a debate. But that's where i'm at right now. And that's amazing.

  • Upvote 1
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The character I referred to as That Dude is apparently called "Lor San Tekka" and that was revealed in The Force Awakens Look and Find book, according to wookieepedia.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That was my original theory. If Kylo Ren is significantly younger than Adam Driver, I think it's still on. If they're broadly playing their character ages I think it all gets a bit cramped and I think the "WHY JAKKU" question comes back. Why is the location of Luke kept near Leia's child? That seems to put them both in danger, whereas Luke wanting an emergency method of getting his daughter to him seems quite reasonable.

It's the most secret of all the deleted scenes from the original trilogy...

Luke and Leia get it on

Job done - everyone's happy!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Has it's good moments, but it's just not original enough for me. Too much riffing on the past to appease a Star Wars fanboy like me. I understand why, it's trying to win back an older generation of casual Star Wars fans and excite kids at the same time. Old-school nerds like me are fed nostalgia and nothing else.

My main issue is that it ignored my main delight of Star Wars - the sense of wonder. This is not a new Star Wars movie, more a cool remix of the past ones. Death Star 3.0 was probably the worst. We used to mock it returning in Jedi, and doing it again here was ludicrous, I thought.

When I watched the original trilogy, I was constantly being presented with things I'd never seen before, (AT-ATs, Cloud City, Death Stars, Snowspeeders, Hoverbikes, Boba, etc). Every film seemed to expand the universe. This one adds almost nothing at all. Not even a new set design or vehicle as far as I could tell, just remixes. Lucas, for all of his flaws, had a stellar imagination and even the Phantom Menace introduces so much new stuff (pod racing, underwater cities, new types of spaceship, mobile ground shields etc, etc) and though I didn't miss his writing or cheese at all, I missed his vision. I missed his presence and I never thought I'd say that after the prequels.

But what this new one doesn't copy, which annoyed me, is the heroes journey because it's going for more of a 3-way story with ex-Stormtrooper kid and Darth Adam from Girls (I'm terrible with names), and it's way too frantic to give them all a satisfying character journey.

I have many other gripes, but they are really gripes in the nerdiest sense.

In a weird way I feel more disappointed than I did after the prequels, because this film is so good in many ways, but it's all teasing and no satisfaction, which is more frustrating (though it's a better film at the same time).

This was basically my review too, it's very Star Wars but on balance probably a bit too Star Wars. It's an elegant way of introducing the new characters though and as long as Disney now have the confidence to say "People are invested in these characters, we can now do what we want" (and I'm pretty sure that is the case for most people) then they're in a great position for the rest of the trilogy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whilst things may change over the next two days I will say that the UK performance is nowhere near US numbers. Without revealing anything I shouldn't it would astonish me if this tracks anything near Spectre. It is miles behind as of tonight. (Unless it's only northerners who are watching it since I can't track that).

Do you work for Rentrak?

Man, I should have bought the box office report out of retirement this weekend.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Watched it last night at the Printworks IMAX in Manchester and I fucking loved it.

Yes that is indeed correct. Please never defend the prequels to me again. Cos now I got MY Star Wars back

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, here's two interesting details I picked up from a second viewing:

1, At the end of the visions when Rey touches the light sabre you hear someone whisper the words 'these are your first steps'. Presumably this relates to Rey's realisation that she has Jedi powers.

2, In the scene where the child Rey is left on Jakku the hand seen taking clearly belongs to Unkar Plutt. This seems a little strange given the character's background and that Lor San Tekka also lives there and is such a trusted friend.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Loved it. Weirdly, what annoyed me about it was

Anthony Daniels' performance as 3P0 which gets more and more shrill. If you listen to him in IV, he's a camp English butler but his voice gets more and more effeminate the older Daniels gets. He was great in the OT, mostly, but Daniels' version of him in the prequels just seemed overlooked and he hasn't toned it down any for this new one

  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Loved it. Weirdly, what annoyed me about it was

Anthony Daniels' performance as 3P0 which gets more and more shrill. If you listen to him in IV, he's a camp English butler but his voice gets more and more effeminate the older Daniels gets. He was great in the OT, mostly, but Daniels' version of him in the prequels just seemed overlooked and he hasn't toned it down any for this new one

Note the arm. That was clearly Venom-P0, I expect they'll explain where actual C3-P0 is in the next one.

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Watched it for the second time today and loved it. I love it so much.

It's the kinda of sequel I wished that my 19 year old self could have seen back in 1999 instead of that Phantom Menace train-wreck.

It felt far more congealed, concise and well flowing watching it again a second time, now that it wasn't the middle of the night and kept noticing bits from trailers etc.

The film is dotted with lovely little touches.

I particularly enjoyed the menacing shift in light during that bit. Just as it looks like Han might be persuading and reaching out to his son, the actual sun dies shifting the room into darkness with Kylo Ren's face in red light. So well done.

...for those who felt it wasn't 'original' enough, I have no idea what you were expecting. This is a rejuvenation of a franchise left in ruin - much like the ship wreckage on Jakku - after some horrible mistreatment from the prior prequel trilogy. This new film may have some call backs and a tone similar to the original film but it's all there to get everything back on track and kick off a new series of varied films.

  • Upvote 5
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello! A long post follows.

Utter, utter conjecture but I quite like it and I can't see any real holes in it.

Right, I've been thinking about it and the only piece of evidence I need is that the ship that Rey saw leave was the ship Han was on later. I think it might have been.

At some point, Finn says something along the lines of "Jakku? Why does everyone keep wanting to go back to Jakku?"

And it's all about Jakku.

From a mild dip into EU, Jakku was the home of a big battle not long after Endor, due to it having a weapons factory there or similar. We don't know when TFA is, but it's about 30ish years after RoTJ. I think That Dude decided to retire from War to Jakku at that point and not long after that, Leia had Ben. He was found to be force sensitive and at around 5 was sent to train with Luke.

At some point later, probably about 8 years, Luke fell in love (with a fellow teacher or a student, one would assume...If so, that would be a powerful kid...) and either because he knew about Anakin being turned due to being in love and denying it, or just out of arrogance followed through with it. His partner gave birth and Luke was distracted him from his duties. This was when Ben started his walk towards the dark side. Ben, probably, killed everyone including Luke's partner and Han (and Chewie) ran and left Leia to deal with it. As a last favour after everything was destroyed, they agreed to take Rey to That Dude On Jakku for her safety. Whilst delivering her, the Millennium Falcon was stolen so they stole/got a ride on the ship they left on. They told Rey they'd be back, but instead Luke decided he had to vanish. He went and checked on her, giving the map piece to That Dude, R2 to Leia and then leaving forever.

The doll was knitted by Rey's mother, possibly as the only link to Luke even at the time. The helmet is just from a battle that she collected when she noticed it was like her toy and didn't sell it like she didn't sell BB8.

The bit in bold is kinda what holds it all together.

I've thought of a bit this doesn't really take into account.

Han and Leia seemed to know, rather than know of, Snoke.

The bit from Hux saying that the Republic lie feels a bit tied into this. I'm not sure I've got any evidence for that, but it feels likely that there is some sort of collapsed negotiation there and that is when Ben first met Snoke, then leads him back to Luke to kill everyone after he was trained in evil. That moves my timeline around a bit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow, I'm pretty speechless at the moment. All I can say is it was absolutely brilliant and needs repeat viewings to pick everything up (and there is a damn treasure trove of stuff in there!).

Also it felt like Star Wars renewed. I don't think Lucas could have ever pulled off something like this, it was just so fresh, just what SW needed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. Use of this website is subject to our Privacy Policy, Terms of Use, and Guidelines.