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Wiper

The terrifying, never-ending (old) Star Trek thread - new movies and Discovery talk in the other, dedicated threads

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Yeah, renting the blu-rays seem to be the way to go. I kind of agree that you don't want to miss anything, even the terrible episodes. You need to feel the lows to get the most of the highs.

But don't agree with everyone's assessment that he can't sit through all of Star Trek. Even for hundreds of hour if you watched one a day while having your dinner, and inevitably on occasion be lazy and stick another on after, you'd rattle through them in no time. My favourite thing about them is they don't require 100% of your concentration either and make for good background noise if it's not the best of episodes. A warning for TOS though ...the episodes are about 10 mins longer than the others. You'd rattle through TNG faster.

If you liked Babylon 5 I think you'll get more of a kick out of DS9. When you watch the early TNG it should be treated as some kind of weird curio until it starts to get good. But there is something special about the early episodes where it's more about the idea behind the story than the story itself. It's very quaint.

I'd really recommend the 3rd series of Enterprise too. It's one series long arc and while it dips in the middle (and the crew are a bit shit) it works really well. I'd not touch the 4th series until you've watched other Star Trek though as it's mostly fan-wank.

Voyager isn't as bad as people make out but leave it until last. The lows aren't as fun and the highs are rarely there. It's just ...meh.

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Amazed that Venice Cull recommends missing season 3 of DS9 (and the season 2 cliffhanger) as that's where things really get going, and the whole remainder of the series stems from there.

Season 4 wouldn't have the same impact without watching stuff like Improbable Cause/The Die Is Cast. Aside from all the Delta Quadrant stuff there are brilliant standalones like Civil Defence (old Cardassian security systems on DS9 go haywire) and Defiant (featuring the return of Tom Riker with the amazing reveal where he peels off his sideburns to reveal he is wearing the uniform of the sinister alter-ego: a goatee)

Even Season 2 has some crackers, with the crew properly settled in by that point (TNG didn't achieve this until season 3, the same time they ditched the spandex). DS9 Season 2 has one of my favourite episodes - Whispers - the one where O'Brien gets back from some trip and everyone is treating him with suspicion.

When it comes to TNG I'd miss all of seasons 1 and 2 except for some important scene-setters, such as The Neutral Zone (season 1 finale) and Q Who? in season 2, both of which set up the arrival of the Borg with impressive foresight and restraint.

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I might actually do this - the rentals, that is. I wasn't aware it was getting blu-ray treatment, and a cursory glance suggests it's a really nice one.

It is, but I think it works better when it's just the HD transfer of the original material, so I'd turn off the updated effects if I were you. They're often done with reverence to the originals, but I don't think they fit that well really. And you're after seeing what it actually looked like I guess, not what it would have looked like if they'd had better special effects. Obviously it's your call but I like my TOS to be O. Also, it's a bit tortuous to do so the way they've split the episodes across the discs, but if you can, try to watch them in production rather than broadcast order. They flow better that way.

should it turn out I really don't enjoy TOS

If you go with the innocence and the peculiar mix of high concept and breezy (and cheesy) humour, I reckon you'll love it at its best. It's far more playful and less convoluted than modern stuff, but that's usually to its benefit I think. Also helps if you have a thing for short skirts and beehives. (Though not on yourself necessarily.)

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The TERRIFYING HAIR is a major factor in putting me off, actually (who was the blonde-haired lass with the massive beehive? That thing traumatised me as a lad), but I think I can live with the short skirts ;)

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The TERRIFYING HAIR is a major factor in putting me off, actually (who was the blonde-haired lass with the massive beehive? That thing traumatised me as a lad), but I think I can live with the short skirts ;)

This one?

JaniceRand.jpg

She's not in many episodes

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Well, regardless of wherever you start Wiper, do keep updating this thread with your impressions as you make your journey through Trekdom.

The Trek universe and history does have quite an impact on the nerd mind, hence many of us debating its merits many years after the show has finished.

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This one?

JaniceRand.jpg

She's not in many episodes

That's the one! And to think, people make fun of mullets...

And I'll be sure to report back on my experiences. Aside from the ones where I get mocked incessantly by the better half for watching Star Trek, that is.

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• Wouldn't bother with TOS either. As groundbreaking as it was at the time I'm not sure you'd enjoy it beyond it being a bit of a curiosity. You already know the story, Kirk, Spock, tribbles, yadda yadda.

The first half dozen episodes or so of the original series are brilliant science fiction by any standards. Not seen beyond that for donkeys years, but I remember re-watching the first few several years ago and being bowled over by them.

:quote:

Get the first series at least on blu-ray or you're missing out on some of the finest TV sci-fi ever made. In fact, I'm off to Amazon to take this advice myself...Then re-watching TNG, DS9 and Voyager. :)

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DS9 is shit. Ok, maybe it gets good eventually, but I've never seen those episodes if they do exist. Shit characters with mostly poor actors (Brooks is terrible, shame cause he can act just not here) apart from quark who almost manages to singlehandley keep the show interesting. Almost.

DS9 is a shit spacestation, Bajor is boring with a boring race. The cardassians are always good value but the show needs a lot more.

Voyager craps on it from a great height with some utterly fantastic episodes. A better crew (well, apart from Harry) and a good central idea make for decent sci fi tv. I have tried to watch DS9 over and over agin, thinking that eventually I would "get it" and it would suddenly transform into this amazing piece of drama. Its never happened, I just dont like it and never will, I even prefer Enterprise!

To answer the original question

TOS - start with this then the movies, start at season 2 for TNG, avoid DS9 like the plague then try Voyager and Enterprise.

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Told you, he didn't start at season 4. Like most of the Trek audience at the time he gave up on it. Hence why it was rebooted into something magnificent.

And also why Wiper should start at season 4 or we'll have another Sandman on our hands.

I simply tell the truths you pasty nerds cannot face.

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Told you, he didn't start at season 4. Like most of the Trek audience at the time he gave up on it. Hence why it was rebooted into something magnificent.

He probably started at Season 4, had no clue what was happening, then gave it up as a bad job.

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He probably started at Season 4, had no clue what was happening, then gave it up as a bad job.

Unlikely, Paramount ensured that it was basically a new start for those who had never seen DS9 before, or those millions who had stopped watching by the end of the first season.

Nerd war! Nerd war!

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Just watch all of it because even at its very worst its better than most of what passes for sci fi these days...

Including Babylon 5

The films are amazingly fun. Except insurrection, that's shit

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Unlikely, Paramount ensured that it was basically a new start for those who had never seen DS9 before, or those millions who had stopped watching by the end of the first season.

Nerd war! Nerd war!

Have you even seen it? It's not a new start, a new dynamic perhaps with Worf but there's a hell of a lot of back story you need to know. You can't just run in there fresh with those characters without seeing a big chunk of S3.

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I can't believe some of the guff in here about DS9. Following Pob's suggestion I checked out 'Whispers' today, and it's instantly become one of my favourite episodes of the entire series. The first few season have their fare share of gems, and a lot of the other episodes are interesting if only to see how different character relationships evolve.

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Even Season 2 has some crackers, with the crew properly settled in by that point (TNG didn't achieve this until season 3, the same time they ditched the spandex). DS9 Season 2 has one of my favourite episodes - Whispers - the one where O'Brien gets back from some trip and everyone is treating him with suspicion.

Wow that's in S2? It's such an original twist on an old cliche. Fantastic episode. I might watch it today actually.

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For anyone considering revisiting S1 of TNG, I can heartily recommend Wil Wheaton's book Memories of the Future.

He's only done vol 1 so far - Encounter at Farpoint > Datalore - but there's a loving (and often brutally honest) synopsis of each episode and plenty of really nice behind the scenes anecdotes. And it being Wil Wheaton, it's really funny.

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:quote:

Get the first series at least on blu-ray or you're missing out on some of the finest TV sci-fi ever made. In fact, I'm off to Amazon to take this advice myself...Then re-watching TNG, DS9 and Voyager. :)

Yup, love the original series, just rounding it off now and watched the original movie last night. Which wasn't so good, but then it's Khaaaaaaan tonight. :)

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Wow that's in S2? It's such an original twist on an old cliche. Fantastic episode. I might watch it today actually.

Having just remembered the twist, I realise I was actually getting two episodes conflated in my mind (Visionary - season 3 - another "what the fuck is happening to O'Brien?" episode). This time he keeps jumping five minutes into the future). Whispers is better, though.

Also, there is no way that season 4 is a 'reboot' of DS9. That implies that they junk a load of stuff and start from scratch, whereas in fact all that happens is a new character joins the cast, Sisko's hair moves from his head to his chin, and a major new arc kicks off. I remember it being described as DS9's "make or break" season, but it's still a natural continuation of what's come before. The season 2 finale is more of a kick up the arse.

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The obvious answer is to start with Encounter At Farpoint (the TNG pilot ep), and then we can provide a list of Season 1 and 2 eps that are worth watching. I mean, personally I'd watch them all but that's... what... 48 eps of stuff that's far from all gold. Then Wiper can watch everything from Season 3 onwards.

So! From memory, here's a list of watchable Season 1 and 2 eps:

Season 1:

Encounter At Farpoint

The Last Outpost (solely because it introduces the Ferengi. Thinking of DS9 here...)

Where No One Has Gone Before

The Battle

Hide And Q

The Big Goodbye

Datalore

11001001

Coming of Age (links in with the later episode, Conspiracy)

Heart of Glory

Skin of Evil (it's kinda shit, but you know why he needs to watch this one...)

Conspiracy

The Neutral Zone

Season 2:

The Child

Elementary Dear Data

A Matter of Honor

The Measure of a Man

Contagion

Time Squared

Q Who

The Emissary

Peak Performance

Any advance on this?

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"Something I've not seen is shit despite everyone saying otherwise"

Good work.

All of seasons 1 and 2, most of 3. Think I gave up towards the end of 3, so little of it is memorable, but I do recall Sisko trying to hump that bird from 24.

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